N4TM Wrote an article that stipules that members of ACT (Apologetics Co-ordination Team) are deceivers and liars and this includes those who correspond with any member of ACT.
(Please note First Plumbline Apologetics is now called UK Apologetics Library).
Please see the link below for more information.
After my responce to Andrea from N4TM, I stipulated clearly I will wait 30 Days from the 1st July 2012 to either correct her article and vindicate First Plumbline Apologetics (FPA) Or remove the article from the N4TM blog site, so far she has refused to do so, I have no choice but to publish this webpage and my reference to ACT has been removed.
It was appropriate for me to give the true account the situation and as a response to the claims in the N4TM blog page concerning what is being spoken about FPA with out my knowledge and this matter was brought to my attention by some one who e-mailed me, the following information has no accuracy from some one who what she calls her discernment website, for this reason I would place this statement to the World Wide Web.
This person who is known as Andrea Ahnonemous stated her self to be presumptuous but making assumptions about me, by her own admission she stated:
“I don’t post emails to my blog, that’s just me. So, I’ve had experience with “contacting” people over my concerns and being shut down, shut out, and then those same people who utilized me lied about me to others. It’s not your fault that I’ve already learned my lesson the hard way not to trust certain people. I do apologize for assuming you would have done the same. But lo, we are here now and I still don’t trust you based on your public display and attack style comments and posting previously personal emails,”
1) As practice we do not publicly create webpages about people, churches or ministries before we attempt to contact them, something that the owner of N4TM has not done in this case.
2) On rare occasions we make mistakes as no one is infallible, it has not gone unnoticed and we are usually contacted by people who have pointed out our inaccuracies or mistakes, as long as it is proven and not speculative, then appropriate action is taken.
I did not think it was wise to publish a page without any consultation, instead Andrea from N4TM gave FPA a knee jerk reaction to my linking Sounddoctrine website and as a result of this she publicly spreaded her blog page link about FPA on other sites.
3) In my own defence so that I am not accused of being deceitful as she has done, for this reason I posted her messages she had sent to me through you tube publicly because she has stated she contacted me in the past, Andrea had failed to mention that it was not about this issue.
4) I believe I have the right to defend myself publicly, only because she made this page against First Plumbline Apologetics and broadcasted this to the “masses”, and did not bother to contact me before she acted and published her blog
The founder of N4TM, Andrea Ahnonemous, AKA mijadedios shows in her quote below, that she had no intention of contacting me, is this Christ like at all ?
I cannot accept the “guilt by association” which has been implied by N4TM. The First Plumbline Apologetics website does not promote the likes of Ray Comfort, Chuck Missler, Chuck Smith, and others, but rather we have exposed them.
She did not contact me prior her publishing her article, because Andrea genuinely believes that I would not respond and would try conceal my implied support or rather “yoking” for these listed people and their websites, which is more false asumptions and has provided no evidence for the claims, other than outdated links (which has been removed/replaced) featured on the FPA website which contained 3rd party links, which is out of our control and a disclaimer is featured for this reason.
I did state that those links have been removed and corrections have been made where appropriate, hoping that this was good enough to have the article corrected on her blog at least.
The updates of the FPA website is a slow process, as the website work itself is run by one individual who works alongside other people, Miguel’s time is also spent on numerous tasks, which include, husband & father roles (including homeschooling), street preaching, YouTube video exposes, answering e-mails, creating offline articles, and researching amongst others. The research alone can take several months-years before it can be published, so patience and a little grace is needed.
In spite of this, Andrea later apologizes and admits her mistake but then refuses to correct her assumption or remove the article, is therefore not an apology.
(Click on the underline link to view the image)
“I do apologize for assuming you would have done the same. But lo, we are here now and I still don’t trust you based on your public display and attack style comments and posting previously personal emails,”
The way Andrea has handled herself puts into question her love for the brethren as advised in (John 13:35) and (1 John 3:14). If I was in error as she believes, then the most loving thing a Christian can do for any believer, is apply the instruction given in Ezekiel 33:8-9 and Ezekiel 3:20 – 21.
The following information will show exactly why in normal circumstances, the area of scriptural correction and authority is no place for women, but rather the responsibility of doctrinal instruction was always made by a male role, based on: 1 Timothy 2:11-14 (and others). Andrea’s behaviour is showing she has a clear problem with submitting to scriptural authority that is God’s word contained in the bible itself.
The actions taken by N4TM, does not show the quality of a discernment ministry but rather invalidates it. Based on the principle that spiritual correction and doctrine is NOT an area for women, the entire blog is best ignored.
Please see my study on the Role of Women in the church. The reasons why I say this are not out of pride, nor male chauvinism but out of GENUINE concern for the brethren including N4TM owner Andrea.
Please Click on number 1) to see the screen shot of N4TM website.
1) here are the points to consider, Sound Doctrine website is connected to a “member” of ACT (Apologetics Coordination Team). this is untrue, here is the real story she has not explained, I had placed a link to Sound Doctrine this does not imply in any way that the Sound Doctrine website connects, endorse or promotes First Plumbline Apologetics, FPA stipulates It’s very important that you clearly understand that the inclusion of any link from anywhere within the First Plumbline Apologetics web site does not necessarily imply our endorsement of any ministry, resource, or organization featured regarding anything that it does or teaches.
We bear no responsibility on what is published on external or third-party websites that is not under our control this is why we have made it clear that the responsibility of external second or third-party websites bares with the reader to check external links and the website material out for themselves, this statement from N4TM is a direct assault on those who are sincere Christians who hold to the view that Truth is absolutely essential so we are to edify one another 1 Thessalonians 5:11 this is not so, instead this individual has an axe to grind on this issue for a woman who acts on her own authority rather than Gods.
2) “It is my belief that those who are members of the ACT are members of the “Network” of “False Discerners,”
The person’s on ACT’s website is John Hayworth, as being part of ACT as an adviser and editor to Miguel Hayworth for FPA, really N4TM should have contacted John Hayworth, as far as I am aware ACT it is not simply a club or an organisation, ACT is run by Sandy Simpson, but no where does ACT state that it is a “Network” of people who work together, ACT is a list of ministries that is recommended by Sandy Simpson alone, this statement is not true ACT does not imply as far as I am aware that it operates as a network of ministries and this is another false assumption that is misleading.
3) “Those who appear to warn however have means to counter their own warning via their network friends who then endorse the same people their fellow network friends are “warning of.” Tricky I know, but follow the process for one second.“
This is a misleading statement N4TM has not shown hard evidence where First Plumbline for that matter is seen working with for example Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Ray Comfort ect as listed on sound doctrine website… This statement is saying guilt by association, non of the people N4TM who is listed has any involvement with the operation and working within the First Plumbline Apologetics network outside ACT in the UK this is nothing more than misinformation this website has been removed since it was pointed out to FPA.
To note First Plumbline has personally addressed these concerns raised by others to the people involved directly with the ministries that are listed by N4TM, In the case of N4TM I have applied scriptural principles of first communication individuals concerned this proves that I have directly applied the principle found written in Ezekiel 33:8 – 9 and Ezekiel 3:20 – 21 this is the principle that all Christians should practice as Andrea from N4TM knows who I am she has not done this, N4TM Andrea has tried to justify her conduct by stipulating she does not have to apply biblical conduct to what she does and that this does not apply to her and in saying this the N4TM founder is showing that N4TM as a ministry does not apply biblical principles or Biblical instruction to the practice of N4TM, this is nothing more than liken to “a bull in a China shop” that places the integrity of N4TM into question, a trait of a Christian will be one that has integrity showing a good christian attitude in dealing with Truth and Error in principle and conduct.
FPA’s position is the people we communicate with individually, as a practice we will allow ordinary people time to defend themselves in the case of public speakers we address them differently concerning teaching and practice, I believe when dealing with any issue we have to deal with issues spiritually, not carnal the Bible teaches are war is not of flesh and blood, Ephesians 6:12 N4TM is proven itself to struggle against me rather than what I represent and so Andrea has not
These statements and N4TM is nothing more than writing about guilt by association without hardline facts.
4) “Member of ACT- Michael (name slightly changed) Michael has a site and warns about Chuck Missler, he even uses N4TM and others as site sources for “his” material that he claims he is warning people of.“
N4TM segments article on Chuck Missler has been removed and replaced on FPA, in spite of whether this matters this would contradict her statement, Andrea has shown she has a problem by me posting her article this includes full credit and mention of where the quotations come from, but she has no problem with this being on an ACT website DITC and also notice that NT4M blog inaccurately calls me by the name Michael even though she admits to slightly changing my name but she says “It has always been my policy that what I post is “for the masses” not limited to my inferior site.” this is stating that anyone is free to post her articles on any website this really contradicts the statement above, why was it such an issue for ACT to list First Plumbline Apologetics.
5) Michael, has links on his page to this group: Sound Doctrine. Sound Doctrine endorses Chuck Missler (among other false discerners).
More Guilt by association, just because I had one link to Sound Doctrine does not prove that I have endorsed the people who have been listed on this external second party website, as I have stipulated “we cannot vouch for their every belief. As with all things in this world, the onus is upon you to check out each site and to exercise spiritual discretion,If you spot any link within this links page that is ecumenical, anti-Israel or in error please don’t hesitate to let us know…” following this comment we have also stated in the index page”We cannot be held responsible for any damage arising out of reliance on content, including incorrect or outdated information, as the articles shown on this website that is not written by FPA, but supplied to us by various individuals, when possible we do endeavor to check this when possible, if you have any questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact us.
We hold a strict Data Protection Act Policy to protect the individuals who have given us their stories, accounts and testimonies of their experiences in New religious Movement’s, abusive groups and Cults we will not disclose their names unless stipulated.
We cannot be held responsible for the inaccuracy of third-party content contained in external websites, this includes articles or websites to which we placed a link on the FPA website this includes sites we link to, this does not imply any endorsement for this reason we ask our readers to check everything they read on on third party sites.
In regards to the information people supply us, we cannot be held responsible or liable for the consequences of any use of these as this is a public website, this includes forums, blogs, etc as a result of their articles.
We do constantly update our website as our aim is to try to provide you with accurate and appropriate information, but we cannot be held responsible for any incorrect or misleading information of any website outside FPA and personal stories sent us to that is posted publicly.
Where we have provided links to third-party websites for further information or individual reports on this website from a third-party, you should be aware that we are not responsible for the accuracy, availability or functionality of the information from external third party sites etc, FPA cannot be held liable, directly or indirectly, for any loss or damage caused by information provided to us or where we have linked to these sites.“
N4TM has failed to meet this standard of practice nor does N4TM operate according to Biblical standards.
5) I am warning my readers right now that just because someone uses my site as a source does not imply that I knew of it, nor am I endorsing their site, especially since as of today I’m publicly saying I do not endorse ANY member of ACT. In fact this post is going a step further and warning all my readers who invest their time and energy listening to ANY member of ACT and take them as people who are ‘for’ the church body. This is a big sweeping statement, but I see a lot of DOUBLE SPEAK going on within those members and until they completely separate themselves from the fake group, I cannot vow for any of them. Some members have been following my blog for a very long time. I believe there are leaking my posts to outside sources who then do similar posts, with a slight twist so it appears it’s their own post. This action gives them further “appearance” of being “warners,” when in fact they are continuing to twist the truth.and take them as people who are ‘for’ the church body. This is a big sweeping statement, but I see a lot of DOUBLE SPEAK going on within those members and until they completely separate themselves from the fake group, I cannot vow for any of them. Some members have been following my blog for a very long time. I believe they are leaking my posts to outside sources who then do similar posts, with a slight twist so it appears it’s their own post. This action gives them further “appearance” of being “warners,” when in fact they are continuing to twist the truth.
N4TM has not corrected this mistake FPA does not operate Double Speak in our dealings with what the website is set out to do, as said by Andrea she still cannot trust me as I am still listed under ACT I also ask likewise not to trust anyone based on Romans 3:4.
Andrea is not seeing scriptural principles of Trust, 1) we have no right to put our own faith and trust in any one not even me.
2) the only person we should trust is Jesus Christ as described in the Bible and the Bible itself she has not been obedient to scriptural principles here set by God instead by not adhering to Gods instruction in who we are to treat other believer Andrea is then is showing her problem in submitting to scriptural authority the Bible, the Bible is specific about dealing with individuals who we believe are in error, Ezekiel 33:8 -9 and Ezekiel 3:20 – 21 is not specific to those believers who belong to the same Local gathering of believers this is not the principle set by Matthew 18, but this is about personally dealing with individuals.
This is the very example was given concerning certain women in 1 Timothy 5:12-13
One example of this is that I have personally contacted CC in 2008 and they have stonewalled me concern Brian Broadersons participation with inter-faith government-funded events like Hope 2008.
The question is why on earth would I be leading people into CC or K. House this is accusation is abhorrent to God and we need to learn not rush in without checking all the facts, and practice the fruits of the Holy Spirit one of these is patience and this is not easy even for me.
It would be advisable for N4TM comply with Matthew 7:4-5 on the about us page of the N4TM, Andrea places a hyperlink under the title <<<Jesus the Christ>>> that encourages people to visit the Bible Gateway site, biblegateway bookshop is one of the major sellers for Rick Warren’s books, on this Andrea should have checked her sources before pointing anyone to use an external site that encourages people to buy Rick Warrens books this is not to say that Andrea promotes Rick Warren or endorses any external websites, but it does not make her look good as to why point people to sites that promotes rank heretics, liberals and new agers, here are a list of other names, Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, 32o Freemason Norman Vincent Peale, Greg Laurie etc
For the reasons at it may seem harsh but as an anti-feminist I do not believe in every case a woman should be in position’s of spiritual authority, not also in area’s of discernment but this should bring shame on the men for not stepping up, Andrea does not claim to be a teacher of the word but she has not demonstrated the instruction Paul gave concerning the role of women in the body of Christ this demonstrates that Andrea is not practicing Proverbs 31 but the opposite in this 1 Timothy 2:12 the words teach or have authority over men are used, Andrea claims to obey the first instruction but demonstrates that Andrea does not obey the second instruction to Have Authority over men, in this she does not demonstrate the attitude of a humble and virtuous woman this is not a Godley character and so demonstrates that N4TM cannot be trusted or the sites integrity, for that matter, the reactions from Andrea are not conducive to the body of Christ and is best avoided.
in Christs name