Why are Joe Schimmel and Jacob Prasch not discerning within their own camps?

maxresdefault       gfm      joe

Why are Joe Schimmel and Jacob Prasch not discerning within their camp?
Or are they mere oversights?

A response to left behind or led astray.

Who is leading who astray?

Most of my work has been exposing what is called the new spirituality in the churches and the new ecumenical movement under its very title missional, social and institutional ecumenism, it has been one of my biggest concerns with regards to the deceptions that are occurring within both Messianic and discernment/polemical groups and churches, it must be noted that some of the names that are mentioned in this article have been spoken out against by Jacob Prasch and Joe Schimmel but not all of them, the particular article is not aimed at the content of the video that he is promoting as we had already dealt with some of the inaccuracies of what was rather promoted in the trailer in a separate article but it is rather who Joe Schimmel has aligned himself with in doing so there are certain people who will take the focus away from the issues the article brings into question or for that matter justify any involvement Joe Schimmel has with the people mentioned below.

It did not occur to me until more recently that the most trivial matters can always be a deterrent from dealing with the real issues that are actually leading many astray, in the case people within the Pre, Mid, and Post-tribulation camps, there is ecumenical infiltration of compromise in all three, the focus has shifted away from Rome and gone into name calling and divisions that are being created, but the root of it is not that obvious, in this case, it is not a Matthew 18:15 issue because neither has sinned against me but rather it is an Ephesians 5 issue we are to not only warn the flock, but those in public ministry need to be held to account, it is, for this reason, I cannot take this article down, it is my hope that Moriel and GFM will stand against all the people listed in this article and repent of any compromise.

I had recently written a critique with a response to Joe Schimmel and after their round table discussion, this would also include Moriel Ministries, not so much on their eschatological views but rather bring into question concerning Roman Catholic and Jesuit influences. Anyone who is Pan, Pre or Mid, is somehow unwittingly and unknowing an agent of Rome who does not go along with Joe’s view of Post-tribulation, as stated by some of his supporters. I would like to move the attention away from this debate and look at why the people who they are working with have ecumenical influences in the camp of Good fight ministries and Moriel; this is not a question of guilt by association but guilt by participation and involvement.

The intent of the article is not to bring into question the character of Joe Schimmel or Jacob Prasch, as they both had spoken against Roman Catholicism, but this is to explore and ask the question as to why is there inconstancy in the way they operate?

Joe Schimmel for his involvement with Joel Richardson, Paul McGuire, etc., With Jacob his involvement with Paul McGuire, Paul McGuire has stated that Moriel Ministries friends of Paul McGuire and Jacob said likewise Our friend Brother Paul McGuire.” Jacob has allowed his film segment to go alongside Joel Richardson etc., on a DVD, following a defense for the DVD of the roundtable discussion video, this article will look into who Joel Richardson and Paul McGuire are. (See More Below).

Before anyone accuses me of being either a Jesuit sympathizer/collaborator or an agent of Satan because I am bringing a matter into question, let me tell you this, the RCC does not love me to bits, because of my public vocal and pro-active opposition to the RCC, the question is why would the RCC tolerates me and those who have suggested I am working as Rome’s agent, when I am considered an enemy of the church of Rome.

I believe it is right to call into question when things are not as they should be but also, I would state that this would also apply to Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministries. If this article is dismissed, it will confound the issue, and Good Fight Ministries and Moriel would have shown themselves to deliberate compromise with possible willful or un-willful ignorance on their part, this might result in Jacob or Moriel making any slanderous remarks or false accusations against me or U.K.A.L but this is nothing new as this tends to happen with those who cannot take criticism only time will tell.

This write-up is primarily for Joe Schimmel as he feels the need to have recommendations on his sites for publicity purposes of his work; I seem to recall Paul writing about this in 2 Cor 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

Paul teaches that the only approval or recommendation he needs is from the Spirit of the living God and that these are not written by pen and ink v3 but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I believe this is a fair question that is not insinuating any direct accusation on Joe Schimmel or Good Fight Ministries.

I seek to explore this matter further, as Joe is in public ministry and needs to hold publicly to account, I take Paul’s attitude not only to expose, question or critique but also to encourage.

There are a lot of good things that God has done in spite of any ministry, and God will use what he will’s and he alone is rightly deserving of all the honor. Joe has expressed his belief in the gospel that consists of justification by faith alone, grace alone and the blood alone. I need to note that Good fight ministries in the past have given some critique of the Church of Rome and false teachers, as well as his expose of Hollywood’s satanic agenda in this there is no problem, I would even say that Joe’s heart to reach the lost for Christ is extremely commendable, as this should be the attitude of all believers and I would encourage Joe to drive the conviction at this time for the gospel to be preached more than ever, is it necessary to have endorsed on a website whose people are so compromised?

What are the points of concern raised?

This is where I believe Joe Schimmel and Good Fight Ministries falls foul of certain area’s that he is not exercising discernment that is needed to fully equip the saints and so I am compelled to write this blog, what I will say no one is safe from deception, the Bible even warns us 1 Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

These are sobering words in this day and age; we need more than ever to discern what is in front of us. It is recent that Joe is so concerned with eschatology though these matters are important, but not essential to bring division into the camp caused by the very ecumenical people who Joe and Good fight ministries are working with. Having said that, this maybe this is an oversight, but it is regrettable that Joe does not say that our salvation comes by faith in Christ alone in some of his videos, in this video (The Noah Movie Deceptionlink, go to 15:48 Sec for reference, Joe just says “Salvation is faith in Christ”.

The statement “Salvation is faith in Christ” would resonate with the Roman Catholic faith system, I would, at least, think that Joe would need to correct himself and stress that Salvation is Faith in Christ Alone.

I do not make false statements, but I back everything with hard evidence, and this places Joe’s ministry into question when he is involved, defends and promotes people like Joel Richardson, Kirk Cameron, and Ray Comfort.

When asked the question, Joel did not want to explain why did the Roman Catholic Church’s position set itself solidly on a post-tribulation position.

The point of the question is not that Rome teaches this from a purely doctrinal concept, but the question was rooted from the point that anyone who is not a post trib is part of a Catholic conspiracy to bring in the great apostasy. My disagreement with Joe is that the great apostasy is already in the churches, one of the biggest things is called the new ecumenism, and this is something that is not a case of guilt by association but guilt by participation.

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A good example of this is that Joe does not instruct people to be cautious about pro-life issues, yes, as a Bible believing Christian I have a moral responsibility to object to abortion, but without compromise, especially when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church.

I will give you a story of something that happened to me on a Saturday, I came across a group called abort67 which there is nothing wrong with standing against abortion, however upon my questioning of Roman Catholicism, the representative soon got quite hostile. As a Catholic woman approached the organisation, they said, God bless you to the lady, and she walked away and remained a Catholic. I see there is a problem here; this woman was not given the gospel. I gave a gospel tract to the person in the abort67 group, and she rejected it and refused to talk with me.

I am not suggesting that Joe Schimmel would have any spiritual unity directly with the Roman Church, what I am pointing out is Joe does not speak against the ecumenism that has infiltrated the pro-life camp in any article or videos I have seen to date. It would be apparent that his recent work on eschatology takes more emphasis over more important matters that are affecting and driving more evangelical believers to compromise.

Historically speaking when Melody Green supported pro-life groups in America she rejected the Keith Greens stance against the Roman Catholic Church, by stating that Keith retracted on his write-up of the Catholic Chronicles. It has been published by the Vatican under its ecumenical documents that it aims to use the pro-life issue to bring the separated brethren into unity. It is of vital importance that these matters must be addressed when considering Rome’s grand scheme of things.

This comes directly under social ecumenism, some time back I had been e-mailed by Andy Burton the Campaign Director of 40 Days for Life/Milton Keynes and the founder of SPUC MK (Milton Kynes), in this he mentioned that both of which are built worldwide on mainly Catholic principles, doctrine etc.

After he was under conviction, he said Frustratingly, all he achieved was attracting Catholics to come and pray with him for an end to abortion, he writes the following Quote “(except the 3 people who I’ve a CC into this email to you who are God’s true remnant and till now are unaware of my trouble and sin and who have joined me in praying against abortion).

I feel I’ve led my friends into the very seductive world of tolerance for Catholicism, Ecumenism, Love Evangelism via the temptation to be grateful for the support the Catholics bring us and the friends they’ve become over the last three years.

The Lord has opened my eyes to my un-Biblical tolerance of those who worship or believe in ‘the queen of heaven’, ‘Mary the co-redemptor’, ‘shape shifting demonic Marianne apparitions’, ‘veneration of dead saints and relics’, ‘indulgences’, ‘purgatory’, ‘transubstantiation’, ‘Mary mother of god’, ‘celibacy of priests’ which Paul declared a doctrine of demons, ‘rosary’ pagan origin adopted by Peter the Hermit, adoration of the wafer saying it is god, The Bible being one of their forbidden books, ‘immaculate conception’, ‘the ascendance of Mary to heaven’ and all the sex scandals inside this supposedly holy church.

The current 40 Days for Life here in MK runs till 4 November. This will be the last one I organise or partake in. I have already been convicted not to attend prayers outside the abortion clinic whilst Catholics are praying too.

Many have tried to change the Catholic Church from within and failed or have ‘tolerated’ fellowship with Catholics to try and witness to them. I won’t go down that road. I will however leave them with a witness of why I’m withdrawing from fellowship with them.

I praise God for the mercy he has delivered and shown to those who have been deceived by pro-life groups globally.”

Here are some of the quotes I have on the subject from various books

[p494] Vatican statement B. Prayer in Common 32. “In certain special circumstances, such as prayer services ‘for unity’ and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly very effective means of petitioning for the grace of unity, and they are a genuine expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren” (Decree on Ecumenism, n. .)

  1. It is to be hoped that Catholics and their other brethren will join in prayer for any common concern in which they can and should cooperate—e. g., peace, social justice, mutual charity among men, the dignity of the family, and so on. The same may be said of occasions when, according to circumstances a nation or community wishes to make a common act of thanksgiving or petition to God, as on a national feast day, at a time of public disaster or morning, on a day set aside for remembrance of those who have died for their country. This kind of prayer is also recommended so far as is possible at times when Christians hold meetings for the study or common action.

(a) Representatives of the churches or communities concerned should agree and cooperate in arranging such prayer—in deciding who should take part, what themes, hymns, scripture readings, prayers and the like should be used.

[p1000] Church in the Modern World

Such a mission requires us, first of all, to create in the Church itself mutual esteem, reverence and harmony, and acknowledgement all legitimate diversity; in this way all who constitute the one people of God will be able to engage in ever more fruitful dialogue whether they are pastors or other members of the faithful. For the ties which unite the faithful together are stronger than those which separate them: At the same time our thoughts go out to those brothers and communities not yet living in full communion with us; yet we are united by the worship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and the bonds of love. We are also mindful that the unity of Christians is today awaited and longed for by many non-believers. For the more this unity is realised in truth and charity under the powerful impulse of the Holy Spirit, the more it will be a harbinger of unity and peace throughout the whole world. Let us, then, join our forces and modify our methods in a way suitable and effective today for achieving this lofty goal, and let us pattern ourselves daily more and more after the spirit of the Gospel and work together in the spirit of brotherhood to serve the human family with has been called to Christ Jesus the family of the sons of God.

It is clear from Rome’s document that the Catholic Church will go to such great lengths to achieve its objective; this is to bring us under Rome’s authority namely the Pope.

I did not write this to offend anyone, but to show my position on these matters, as an advocate against anything does with the Roman Catholic ecumenical/interfaith agenda behind their support for marriage/anti-abortion.

The question should be why is Joe Schimmel isn’t highlighting that there is an issue in the pro-life camp and addressing this?

It makes me wonder in particular areas is he lacking in discernment not to warn the flock? It would appear to me that there is much more to this story than most people who run ministries would like you to know

Who is it that Joe Schimmel is in partnership with?

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Joel Richardson

Joel Richardson is one of the main people are featured in Joe Schimmel’s new jibe against non-post trib/pre-wrath believers, in his trailer advertisement, he makes it known that Joel Richardson, who has involvement with the work at Good Fight Ministries is in the credits shown in the image below.

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Placing the emphasis away from Joe’s dogmatic eschatology views, that this new DVD is about as advertised on Joe’s website, it puts into question who is Good Fight Ministries aligning themselves with. It was not so long after the DVD was promoted that Good Fight Ministries would consider going on the Jim Bakker show, Jim Bakker is a word of faith teacher and is part of the Elijah List along with Patricia King, Jim Bakker still holds to the many false doctrines, it does not really make any sense as to why Good Fight Ministries speak out against the word of faith teachers and then seeks to consider sharing the same platform as those whom Good Fight Ministries objects too.

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It is not surprising, to say the least because when you look at the Joel Richardson’s website, it is very clear that he has had past dealings with Jim Bakker among other known heretical teachers. When I visited Joel’s website, I found very startling results as to why would Joe Schimmel would align and partner with known compromisers, who has connections to teachers such as, Glenn Beck (A Mormon from the LDS Church), the Elijah list’s James Goll (who is ecumenical) and other documents such as Paul Wilbur who has had involvement with the Roman Catholic Church, IHOP (Mike Bickle) and Promise Keepers.

When I visited the Joel Richardson’s website, I saw a display of Iconography on his main page, this for me was a very good indication that Joel Richardson’s ministry should be brought into question, why is it important to use Icon Imagery and why is Joel Richardson compromising?

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Why use Iconography and What do the use of Icons represent?

Icons are more than just about art and culture they are very significant, not because they are pre-Christian but also they are of religious significance because they are very much part of the Eastern and Western Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church. In the past Icons were used and still are an important part of Christian Mysticism and Gnosticism today because these groups believe they have the spiritual significance that went beyond the imagination to a deep connection with God, then this becomes the main focus of worship. In the book called Icons And The Mystical Origins of Christianity, it states that Icons are in fact pre-Christian, and there is a strong link between Icons and Paganism, and there is another reference source material that clearly demonstrate the use of Icons.

There is a strong link between monastic practices and the use of Icons this includes, Lectio Devina were images were used in meditation and contemplative experience.

Lectio Divina Unleashed: Part Three (Icons) “There are many wonderful books available on praying with icons. The tradition of gazing upon icons as a window to God is an ancient one.  Lectio divina is one way of entering into a contemplative experience with images.  To use this way of praying, select an icon or other sacred image with which to pray.  If we have a sacramental vision, then any image offers us an opening onto the holy, however, certain images, such as icons, offer a privileged place in our tradition of revelation.  I invite you to begin by praying with Heather’s wonderful image called “Tender Mercies.”  I have always had great fondness for this icon in particular because of the great intimacy and tenderness between Mary and Jesus.

The argument for the use of Icons are explained in a book Lectio Divina–the Sacred Art: Transforming Words and Images Into Heart.

“Icons are another form of art often associated with sacred purpose. The term Icon comes from the Greek eikona, which simply means “image,” but the icons are more than mere images. The theological foundation for the use of icons rests in Scripture: the Christian scriptures describe Christ as the Eikon- the image and the exact representation of God (Hebrews 1:3). The Orthodox say that an icon is written rather than painted, and speak of icon writers rather than icon painters. Icons, as they are used in Orthodox Liturgy and prayer life, are no more objects of worship than the pages, ink, and typeface of a prayer book. The Orthodox believer prays through, not to, an icon, referencing not an addition to depicting Christ and the Trinity.”

To respond to this quote from this book just because Jesus is the image and representation of God, it is forbidden in the book of Exodus to create images of what is in heaven, this does not give consent to man to create another image that you pray to God through it to experience being in oneness with the Almighty when we can already know about Jesus directly through the scriptures.

Scripturally I do not believe it sets a good example to using such icons on a website that is supposed to represent biblical Christianity, Wikipedia sources that icons are rooted in paganism The earliest written records of Christian images treated like icons in a pagan or Gnostic context are offered by the 4th-century Christian Aelius Lampridius in the Life of Alexander Severus (xxix) that was part of the Augustan History. According to Lampridius, the emperor Alexander Severus (222–235), who was not a Christian, had kept a domestic chapel for the veneration of images of deified emperors, of portraits of his ancestors, and of Christ, Apollonius, Orpheus and Abraham. Irenaeus, (c. 130–202) in his Against Heresies (1:25;6) says scornfully of the Gnostic Carpocratians,

They also possess images, some of them painted, and others formed from different kinds of material; while they maintain that a likeness of Christ was made by Pilate at that time when Jesus lived among them. They crown these images and set them up along with the images of the philosophers of the world that is to say, with the images of Pythagoras, and Plato, and Aristotle, and the rest.

They also have other modes of honouring these images, after the same manner of the Gentiles who were pagans”. St. Irenaeus, on the other hand, does not speak critically of icons or portraits in a general sense, only of certain Gnostic sectarian’s use of icons.”

The question is, should Joel Richardson’s tolerance and use of an Icon’s be overlooked by Good Fight Ministries and Joe Schimmel, who is going along with Richardson, after reading the example from Herescope, you ask the question who is leading who astray?

gfm10Joel Richardson with Joseph Farah (CNP).

There are much controversy and compromise that surrounds Joseph Farah, for example, a Herescope article talks about Joseph Farah being a believer in Quantum Mysticism promoting Tom Horns books, to quote Herescope concerning Joseph Farah:

http://herescope.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/quantum-mysticism-goes-to-market.html

As the Quantum Mysticism movement grows and the Quantum Eschatology doctrine builds, will the quantum collaborators continue to market their mystical wares in a worldly, competitive way? [11] Frankly, there is much money to be made in this emerging hybrid theology.

Here is a sampling of current evangelical Christian books (and chapter titles), all (but two) published by Tom Horn, dealing with this subject matter in one form or another. (Some were also presenters at the Horn’s Future Congress conference in Branson, MO last summer.) [12]:

  •  The Departure [13]Chuck Missler, Ch. 1, “Worldwide Violence: As it was in Noah’s Day, pp. 25-42; Tom Horn (also a Future Congress presenter), Ch. 8, “End-of-Days Demons in High Places,” pp. 153-170; edited by/Introduction by Raptureready.com’s Terry James; [published by Horn].
  • Nephilim Stargates: The Year 2012 and the Return of the WatchersTom Horn (themes woven throughout the book); Chapter 6 excerpted from David Flynn’s article, “An Occult Translation of the Roswell Event: Countdown to 2012,” pp. 73-91 [published by Horn].
  • Pandemonium’s Engine: How the End of the Church Age, the Rise of Transhumanism, and the Coming of the Ubermensch (Overnam) Herald Satan’s Imminent and Final Assault on the Creation of GodTom Horn, Ch. 1, “Pandemonium and ‘Her’ Children,” pp. 1-71; J. Michael Bennett, Ph.D, Ch. 2, “Nimrod: The First (and Future) Transhuman ‘Super Soldier,’” pp. 73-131; Prophecy in the News’ Gary Stearman, Ch. 3, “The Folly of Synthetic Life: Genetic Tampering, Ancient and Modern,” pp. 133-153; Douglas Woodward, Ch. 4, “The Ubermensch and the Antichrist,” pp. 155-185;  Cris D. Putnam, Ch. 5, “Christian Transhumanism: Pandemonium’s Latest Ploy,” pp. 187-214; Douglas Hamp, Ch. 7, “Man Becoming His Own God?”, pp. 235-250; Southwest Radio Church’s Noah Hutchings, Ch. 8, “Transhumanism from Noah to Noah,” pp. 251-262; John P. McTernan, Ph.D, Ch. 9, “Genetic Armageddon,” pp. 263-296; Chuck Missler, Ch. 11, “Pandora’s Box for the 21st Century? The Sorcerer’s Apprentice,” pp. 327-344, and PID Radio’s Sharon Gilbert, Ch. 12, “Dragon’s Breath,” pp. 345-372; Chapter 10 features Canadian researchers (Forcing Change), Carl Teichrib, “To Storm Heaven, To Be Like God, To Rule the World,” pp. 297-321. [14]; [Foreword by Prophecy Matters/WorldNetDaily’s Jim Fletcher; published by Horn].Time Travelers of the BibleGary Stearman, Ch. 2, “Reverberations in Time and Space,” pp. 41-60 [Foreword by/published by Horn].
  • Apollyon Rising 2012Tom Horn (themes woven throughout the book); Christian filmmaker, Christian J. Pinto wrote the 25-page, Preface that formed the basis of his award-winning film, “The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers”[15]; [Foreword by Radio Liberty’s Dr. Stanley Monteith; published by Horn].
  • Forbidden Gates: How Genetics, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Synthetic Biology, Nanotechnology, and Human Enhancement Heard the Dawn of Techno-Dimensional Spiritual Warfare [16] —Tom and Nita Horn (themes woven throughout the book), but especially Ch. 9, “The Spirit Behind Transhumanism,” pp. 177-197, and Ch. 10, “The Transhuman New Face of Spiritual Warfare,” pp. 201-233 [Foreword by Terry James; published by Horn].God’s GhostbustersTom Horn, Ch. 1, “The Spirit of Nosferatu and the Children of the Damned,” pp. 17-30; PID Radio’s Derek Gilbert, Ch. 3, “The Blood is the Life,” pp. 69-82 (on pg. 75, Gilbert actually says that “vampire legends may have originated with the Nephilim”); Fred DeRuvo, Ch. 5, “A Walk in the Dark,” pp. 105-124 (on pg. 109, DeRuvo suggests that the Nephilim are “reptilian shape-shifters”);  Tom Horn, Ch. 6, “Do Alien-Human Hybrids Walk Among Us?”, pp. 125-150; and Douglas Woodward, Ch. 12, “Shamans, PSI Spies, and Military Mediums (Part 2): How America’s Intelligence Services Activated ‘Little Green Men’ on Mars and the Orion Mystery of the Great Pyramids,” pp. 263-283 [Introduction by Chuck Missler; published by Horn].
  • Alien EncountersChuck Missler & Mark Eastman; (subject, mixed with New Age physics, woven throughout the book); [published by Missler (Koinonia House)].
  • Cosmic CodesChuck Missler; (on pg. 283, suggests that the Nephilim of Genesis 6 were “six-fingered,” then directs readers to Alien Encounters); [published by Missler (Koinonia House)].

There are also conferences that give Horn and his associates additional visibility. In September of 2011, for example, Tom Horn was a presenter at the Steeling the Mind Bible Conference in Denver, CO, alongside such popular evangelical speakers as, Mike Gendron, Ed Hindson, John Loeffler, Dr. Stanley Monteith, and Tom Cloud. Horn’s topic: “Artificial Intelligence and the Return of the Nephilim.”[17] Also in the fall of 2011, Horn was a presenter at the Southwest Radio Church Conference in Bristol, VA hosted by Noah Hutchings. His presentation was called, “’The Lost Symbol’—Mayan and Biblical Prophecy 1776-2012,” based on his book, Apollyon Rising 2012. [18]

One of the chief evangelical purveyors of both Horn’s and Missler’s Quantum Mysticism is Joseph Farah’s WND (formerly WorldNetDaily). [19]  Here is a sampling of recent articles posted on WND promoting Tom Horn and his strange and heretical teachings:

  • WHAT DOES 2012 REALLY HOLD FOR THE WORLD? Now’s your chance to catch up on the warnings, Dec. 27, 2011. “…one American author [Horn] wants everyone to know that other calendars predict the same outcome [doomsday 2012], and he claims a demonic plot bringing about the end date could be hiding in plain sight inside the U.S Capitol and your wallet right now….”[20] [bold added]
  • WAS AMERICA FOUNDED WITH SEEDS OF THE OCCULT? Exclusive: Jim Fletcher reviews chilling book, ‘Apollyon Rising 2012,’ Dec. 8, 2009. “In the end (get it?), Apollyon Rising 2012 reads like a novel, but presents as fast-approaching reality….”[21] [bold added]
  • ‘GOD’S GHOSTBUSTERS’ ARE ON THE JOB! Exclusive: Jim Fletcher asks, ‘Who you going to call?’, Oct. 25, 2011. “There are several other terrific contributors to “God’s Ghostbusters [Tom Horn book],” so let me give you my personal guarantee: this book will be one of the most memorable you’ll ever read. It’s that good.”[22] [bold added]
  • THE NIGHTMARE WORLD OF ‘TRANS-HUMANISM’ Exclusive: Joseph Farah warns of federal research attempting to ‘better’ homo sapiens, Aug. 26, 2011. “It sounds like science fiction, but tragically it is science fact… Author and researcher Tom Horn lays it all out in “Trans-Humanism: Destroying the Barriers,” and hourlong [sic] DVD explores the radical transformation of humanity.”[23] [bold added]
    • SECRET U.S. EXPERIMENTS TO PROMPT 2ND COMING? ‘It’s the destruction of humanity and introduction of ‘its’ and ‘things’ that will make war against God,’ Exclusive: Joe Kovacs, Aug. 21, 2011. “Secret experiments now underway in the U.S. and elsewhere are sparking fears of a potential extinction-level event hastening the 2nd Coming of Jesus.”[24] [bold added]
    • TRAVELERS FROM OTHER PLANETS… OR FROM HELL? Exclusive: Jim Fletcher reviews, book where science fiction meets spiritual reality, Jan. 18, 2011. (Quoted above in the introduction.) [25]
    • MEET THE GOD OF DEBAUCHERY, Sex-saturated Bacchanalia boiling up from the underworld, Oct. 7, 2008. “In ‘Nephilim Stargates: The Year 2012 and the Return of the Watchers,’ Thomas Horn ties, moral abandonment to an ancient spirit, known in antiquity as the Greek god Dionysus (Roman Bacchus) who represented the personification of unrestrained sexuality.”[26] [bold added]

Besides Horn’s multiple websites, advertising his own Quantum Mysticism, most of his books and DVDs are also available at the WND Superstore. [27]

Chuck Missler has been a widely respected teacher who has a tremendous outreach into the evangelical world. His most recent controversial association with Tom Horn has cast a pall on his over his ministry. Missler, like Horn, also has a longstanding ministry relationship with Joseph Farah, [28] Founder and CEO of WND who has patriotic Dominionist leanings. Here are a few recent WND headlines illustrating both Missler’s mainstream status and his collaboration with Farah:

  • CHUCK MISSLER JOINS WND CONFERENCE LINEUP – Scientist, CEO, Bible teacher to offer a geostrategic briefing (June 22, 2010). WASHINGTON – Chuck Missler, the scientist and former Fortune 500 chief executive officer turned Bible expositor, will make a presentation at WND’s “Taking America Back” conference in Miami Sept. 16-18…. ”Few people are as equipped to offer the perspectives Chuck Missler brings to the table to address the critical issues facing our country and our world,” said Farah, editor and chief executive officer of WND. “His background in the military, in the corporate world, in academia and in the Bible makes him a very special contributor.”[29] [bold added]
  • FARAH JOINS PERETTI, SHOEBAT, MISSLER IN CONFERENCE – Strategic Perspectives scheduled in Idaho (Sept. 23, 2009). “ WND founder Joseph Farah joins best-selling novelist Frank Peretti and former terrorist Walid Shoebat, Koinonia Institute founder Chuck Missler and more at a Strategic Perspectives Conference in Coeur D’Alene, Idaho, Oct. 23-25. [30] [bold added]
  • FARAH TO SPEAK IN COEUR D’ALENE – Joins Keyes, Missler at ‘Strategic Perspectives Conference’ (Oct. 21, 2010). COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho – WND Editor and Chief Executive Officer Joseph Farah joins legendary Bible teacher Chuck Missler and former Ambassador and WND columnist Alan Keyes as a speaker at Koinonia Institute’s “Strategic Perspectives Conference this weekend here.”[31] [bold added]
  • BIBLE STUDIES LIKE YOU’VE NEVER HEARD BEFORE – Keen, Holy Spirit-guided insight in Chuck Missler’s videos, books (Jan. 22, 2012). “No one provides Bible study insight like Chuck Missler, founder of Koinonia Institute, author, expositor and former Calvary Chapel teacher.”[32] [bold added]
  • INSIDERS TO SPILL DETAILS ON AMERICA’S FUTURE – Join Farah, Corsi at coming Koinonia Institute conference (Aug. 16, 2011)… The event is the Koinonia Institute’s Strategic Perspective Conference in Coeur D’Alene, Idaho, Nov. 4-5. “The Koinonia Institute, said that ‘extremely turbulent times’ are coming that ‘will test all of our presumptions and beliefs….”[33] [bold added]
  • NEW BIBLE TEACHING ABOUT ANGELS FROM CHUCK MISSLER – Check out all of his keen, Holy Spirit-guided insight on books, videos (April 14, 2012). “… A hidden army of protection: A reality that is normally hidden from our view. But are they real? What are the discoveries on the advance of science that may shed light on our understanding of them?”[34] [bold added]

How influential is WND? How many people access WND’s website? Here is what the WND website reports about its readership:

It [WND] is a Top 500 website, according to Alexa.com, the search and ratings agency affiliate of Amazon.com, and the No. 1 independent news site. WND currently attracts nearly 5 million unique visitors a month and more than 40 million page views, according to its own internal monitoring software. [35] [bold added]

How many of the nearly “5 million unique visitors,” or “40 million page views” involved viewing postings promoting Tom Horn or Chuck Missler? How many of those readers purchased a Horn or Missler product from the WND Superstore? The point in asking is this: via WND’s vast Internet reach, many have already been exposed to these men and their false teachings.

However, Rabbi Cahn also has ties to the NAR. He shared in a Passover celebration April 5-8 with NAR elite apostles C. Peter Wagner, Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, et al. Here is an opening excerpt of Pierce’s Glory of Zion letter to his ministry friends:

Dear Saints on the move:

What an incredible weekend! I am so grateful for how the Lord met us during our Passover Celebration, and for the revelation, anointing and alignment that took place. Our weekend was historic, and I fully believe we have crossed over into a new place of healing, miracles and Kingdom authority. Jonathan Cahn helped open our weekend when he shared on the harbingers which are serving to awaken our nation. We are in a season when our eyes must open to the signs the Lord is providing us. [46] [bold/underlining added, italics in original]

According to these prominent NAR Dominionists, Cahn’s “harbingers” are signs from the Lord. Note their application of his coded message. To them, this year’s Passover was an historic marker moving God’s saints into “a new place of healing, miracles and Kingdom authority.” (No mention was made concerning the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.)

Cahn’s The Harbinger is also for sale on the NAR-affiliated Elijah List, along with a glowing endorsement by Sid Roth, Messianic Jewish host of the television program It’s Supernatural, where Cahn was a guest. [47] To understand the context, note that past guests on Roth’s program have included NAR elite apostles such as Chuck Missler, Dr. Cindy Trimm, L.A. Marulli, Chuck Pierce, Rick Joyner, Patricia King and others. [48] Cahn wrote the cover article for Roth’s ministry newsletter in September of 2011, called Mishpochah (Hebrew for “family”). His mystical questions superimposed over a photo of the Statue of Liberty on the newsletter’s front page indicate how he is applying the coded message of his book:

Is it possible that there exists an ancient mystery in which is hidden the secret of America’s future? Is it possible that this mystery lies behind everything from 9/11, to the War in Iraq, to the American housing bubble and its bursting, to the crash of Wall Street and the global economy to the Great Recession and much more, even the President of the United States?

A Harbinger: That which foreshadows a future event; an omen, a herald, a sign: THE HARBINGER, BY Jonathan Cahn. [49] [bold added]

Many are sympathetic to Cahn’s views about America and agree with the warnings. But given the context of this article series, the use of hidden and coded messages embedded in the Bible, we must go beyond patriotic fervour and ask more serious questions. Are there coded secrets hidden in the Book of Isaiah? In the Roth article, Cahn not only approves with this method of decoding prophecy (by uncovering secret messages hidden beneath the biblical text) —then applying them to America—but moves his fictional book into the real world of prophecy with these pronouncements:

A number of years ago, as I was standing at the edge of Ground Zero in New York City, I came across the first puzzle piece of an ancient biblical mystery and a prophetic message known as The Harbinger that concerns the future of America. My friend Sid Roth asked if I could give you, his Mishpochah (family), some exclusive insight into the mystery of The Harbinger….

There is much more concerning the ancient mystery and what the future holds than I could possibly share here — but I do so now as a prophetic call to you as God’s people. On the biblical calendar, September is the time of the trumpet call, the days of repentance, and the calling to return. Our nation is in danger — and God is calling. Pray for America, for God’s mercy, for repentance, and revival. Arm yourself by ordering my seven CD series that reveals these ancient mysteries hidden in the pages of biblical prophecy (see ordering information on the right). Then pray that the message of The Harbinger now goes forth. [50] [bold added]

Why didn’t Cahn send readers to the Bible? Instead they discover that it will cost them $50 to find the answers to these secret mysteries (plus the cost of the book). [51] More marketing. Do his statements above—and his best-selling book—make Cahn a prophet to America? If so, then would a true prophet of God finds fellowship with false teachers and false prophets teaching a false gospel, especially the NAR leaders planning to take dominion over this nation? Sadly, a clear Gospel of salvation is not given in Cahn’s article.

In the June 2012 issue of the Berean Call, T.A. McMahon expresses concern over the unholy bedfellows with regard to Jonathan Cahn’s book:

One final thought—we all know the saying, “You shouldn’t judge a book by its cover,” and that’s a reasonable statement. But I like to check out book covers to see who’s endorsing them. That’s hardly a failsafe practice, but it can put me on “discernment alert” if it raises red flags. In the case of The Harbinger, a big red flag went up regarding the publisher. Though the cover

Says “Front Line,” it’s actually an imprint title of Charisma Media/Charisma House Book Group, the publisher of Charisma magazine. For those not familiar with Charisma, there are no other publication that has supported and promoted more of the unbiblical Word/Faith teachers, the “wealth and health” preachers, the Kingdom/Dominionists, the Apostles and Prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation, the so-called spiritual revivals of the Toronto Airport Vineyard, the Brownsville Revival, the Lakeland Revivals, the Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God, and so forth. There is some irony in the fact that in chapter 9 of Isaiah, TH’s key biblical chapter, God brings down His judgment upon Israel because of “lying prophets.” Charisma has over the years featured many who fit that description. That doesn’t automatically throw TH into a bin of rotten apples, but it should at least cause one to examine its fruit very carefully. [52]

Meanwhile, Jonathan Cahn has gone even more mainstream, associating with other professing evangelicals, a few of whom are connected with the quantum collaborators. He was a presenter at The 2012 International Prophecy Conference in Florida this March with Tim LaHaye, Grant Jeffrey, Randall Price, et al. Hosting the event was Joe Van Koevering, head of the God’s News Behind the News prophecy ministry. [53] Van Koevering has had a friendship with the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), [54] as well as with quantum collaborator Chuck Missler. Both men have appeared on TBN’s Praise the Lord television program. [55]  In April, Missler awarded Van Koevering with an honorary Koinonia Institute gold medallion. [56]

Missler was also a presenter at Joe van Koevering’s 2010 and 2011 International Prophecy conferences, along with Gary Kah and Grant Jeffrey.[57] Jeffrey and Van Koevering have both appeared on Benny Hinn’s television program, This is Your Day.[58] Hinn is an infamous false teacher/false prophet.[59] The late Jeffrey also joined false Kansas City Prophet Bob Jones, dominonist Randy DeMain and quantum collaborator and NAR-affiliated David van Koevering (different from Joe) in an odd online business venture involving medicinal hyssop.[60] Interestingly, David van Koevering, friend of Chuck Missler, [see Part 3] has prominently linked Joe van Koevering’s God’s New website on his own website.[61]

This list of linkages could go on…. The point is that the same names keep coming up over and over again, and in similar contexts.

CAHN’S CODES AND CONNECTIONS

Recently, both Joseph Farah and Chuck Missler have taken an interest in yet another Christian author, Jonathan Cahn, whose book, The Harbinger, has taken America by storm, debuting on two New York Best Seller lists in January. [36] Farah produced a DVD based on Cahn’s semi-fictional book called: The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment—centering upon supposed secret prophecies hidden in the Book of Isaiah that portend America’s doom. Missler promotes this production on his website and his online bookstore. [37]   

The Harbinger continues the pattern of finding coded secret messages about the future embedded in Scripture. Because this book is of a similar genre, and because it is taking America by storm, it is important to examine whether it is affiliated with the other quantum collaborators. Rabbi Jonathan Cahn has recently appeared as a guest on a wide spectrum of shows:

  • It’s Supernatural television program with Sid Roth – September 19-25, 2011[38]
  • The Jim Bakker Show with Jim Bakker – December 15, 2011 [39]
  • CBN’s The 700 Club with Pat Robertson – January 12, 2012 [40]
  • Coast to Coast AM with George Noory – March 4, 2012 [41]
  • Daystar’s Celebration television program with Marcus and Joni Lamb – March 8, 2012 [42]
  • Prophecy in the News television program with Gary Stearman – April 13, 2012 [43]
  • Olive Tree Ministries’ Understanding the Times radio with Jan Markell – April 21, 2012 [44]
  • Rapture Ready Radio’s Afterglow with Tim Roden and Vince Tarquini – May 6, 2012 [45]

However, Rabbi Cahn also has ties to the NAR. He shared in a Passover celebration April 5-8 with NAR elite apostles C. Peter Wagner, Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, et al.

The question applies to Moriel Ministries, why does Jacob allow his segment to go in the DVD without first checking who is who, and why to go to the extent to defend a DVD that features Joel Richardson etc on the roundtable discussion video, why does Good Fight Ministries work with Joel Richardson, who is part of the apostasy and group himself with heretical teachers? After all, do they not accuse anyone who does not hold to their view of eschatology a Gnostic or heretic?

It is very interesting that the article mentioned on this write up exposes Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, but Good Fight Ministries does not seem to take issue with the fact that Joel Richardson is compromised and surrounds himself around false teachers such as Jim Bakker who is a word of faith teachers and Jonathan Cahn.

gfm11

Joel Richardson, Jonathan Cahn and Jim Bakker.

Joel Richardson on his site has stipulated his involvement with Jim Bakker and Jonathan Cahn on the Bakker show. In the herescope article mentioned above about Jonathan Cahn, Cahn is known for his involvement with his New Apostolic Reformation, mystics and Ecumenical friends such as the Elijah lists C. Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Dr. Charles D. “Chuck” Pierce, Barbara J. Yoder, Judy Jacobs, “Apostle” Kyle Searcy, Paul Keith Davis.

It is also known that most of the people within this group such as Chuck Pierce and C Peter Wagner supported Todd Bentley.

chuckpierce chuckpierce1

A question concerning Joel Richardson is this why would he want to compromise with no objection to Cahn’s mixture with proven false prophets, ecumenists, and Christian Mystics and why is no one discerning this issue?

Who are Joel Richardson’s other bedfellows?

Richardson1

The second point that is noticeable is Joel Richardson’s use of language does raise more questions concerning his statement “Joel’s heart is thoroughly missional”, this would make Joel Richardson Emergent because of his statement that “Joel’s heart is thoroughly missional”, but also, this puts into question why is Joe Schimmel going to the extent that he has involved himself with someone who just would overlook some essential errors concerning the names listed in Joel Richardson’s website.

 The term missional is around ten years old it has been a term rooted in the emergent church according to Patheos

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tonyjones/2013/02/20/some-honest-talk-about-labels-emergent-missional-etc/

“I’ve written before about the term “missional.” It bends a lot of ways. It’s a term that basically anyone can use for whatever purpose they want — from a stalwart Southern Baptist neocon like Ed Stetzer to an Anabaptist pacifist like David Fitch. And then you’ve got the neo-con Barthian camp like Darrell Guder and John Franke. They’re all “missional,” and so are a dozen churches planting networks like TransForm, Forge, and the Parish Collective.”

So here’s a test. Imagine a Christian leader saying this: “I’m not missional.”

No one’s going to say that. Not a PC (USA) pastor, and not a PCA pastor. Not a just-war Augustinian, and not an Anabaptist pacifist. Scot McKnight will say he’s missional, and so will Brian McLaren. So will the pope. So will I.

You might say you’re not Presbyterian or you’re not emergent. But you’re not going to say that you’re not missional.

Meanwhile, we all know that the term “emergent” has been redefined by conservatives. As hard as we tried to use it as an open-ended term for an ongoing theological conversation, the theological police jumped up and down screaming that “emergent = liberal” that people started to believe it. Publishers, for instance, once loved the term; they now want nothing to do with it.

So my prediction is that people will keep using the term “missional” and defining it in their own ways. And I think that’s fine. But let’s all remember that with such a broad term that “missional” — like “evangelical,” or even “Christian” — what it really means lies in the definition of the speaker, and the interpretation of the hearer.

http://www.cicministry.org/commentary/issue116.htm

Bob DeWaay’s book The Emergent Church – Undefining Christianity. We publish it here because the terminology and concept of missional have spread throughout evangelicalism. Christians need to be warned that being “missional” has nothing to do with the fulfilment of the Great Commission.

Almost universally, people involved with the Emergent “conversation” espouse one theme: they consider themselves to be missional. Being “missional” is not what traditional Christians have known as “missions.” We have believed that the Christian mission was to send people with the message of the gospel to places where the gospel had not been heard—to preach it and establish churches. As Christianity became established in various cultures, other Christian workers usually came to establish schools, hospitals, and perform other practical expressions of Christian love and mercy. This is not what Emergent thinkers have in mind when they describe themselves as “missional.”

For one thing, the description above started with the idea of the gospel as defined in the Bible. The Emergent mission does not begin with any theological idea. It is not gleaned from Biblical texts such as this one: “and that repentance for forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47). In fact the Emergent mission does not even start from a set of theological beliefs. I say this because their use of “missional” describes the idea that any works that make the world a better place to bring us toward the ideal future.

As we saw in the previous chapter, the Hegelian synthesis is ever lurking in the background of Emergent thinking; and this is the case with the idea of “missional.” For example, Brian McLaren writes concerning his idea of “missional:” “The term, as I understand it, attempts to find a generous third way beyond the conservative and liberal versions of Christianity so dominant in the Western world.”1 McLaren’s idea is that one does not begin with a set of theological beliefs that determine one’s mission, but rather begins with a mission and some sort of theology emerges in the process: “Theology is the church on a mission reflecting on its message, its identity, its meaning.”2 So in his thinking we can know our mission before we know theological truth.

Gaining Theology by Observing Pagans

Brian McLaren credits Vincent Donavan, a Roman Catholic missionary, as a key figure who inspired him to change his ideas about the meaning of salvation and the Christian mission. 9 He cites Donovan to support his claim that one’s mission is not to be found in a prior theological understanding:

I was to learn that any theology or theory that makes no reference to previous missionary experience, which does not take that experience into account, is a dead and useless thing . Praxis must be before theology. . . In my work [theology would have to proceed] from practice to theory. If a theology did emerge from my work, it would have to be a theology growing out of the life and experience of the pagan peoples of the savannahs of East Africa.10

This means that apparently having been given no clear instructions from Jesus Christ, the true Head of the Church, about what He wants us to do and teach, we gain a theology by observing the pagans. Furthermore, we have to allow practice to hold priority over belief.

Let us consider several ramifications of this “missional” thinking of the Emergent Church. First, rather than learning about God and His will from special revelation (the Bible) we must learn about Him from general revelation (observation of creation). The term “theology” means the study of God. General revelation shows us that there is a Creator (see Romans 1 and Psalm 19), but the knowledge gained through general revelation is not a saving knowledge—it is a condemning knowledge, according to Paul’s teaching in Romans 1. Saving knowledge comes through special revelation:

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. . . . How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, (Hebrews 1:1, 2 and 2:3)

With terms like missional used, I would be concerned with mixing in with anyone who would use such a term, as well as the type of people that Joel Richardson’s has shared a platform with.

Richardson1

Joel Richardson is notable for going on the following, this is numerous radio, television and news outlets across the world, including the Glenn Beck (Mormon) Show, the Mike Huckabee Show, the Gordon Liddy Show, the Dennis Miller Show, Chicago Public Radio, the Steve Malzberg Show, the Sid Roth Show, Jewish Voice Today, Janet Folger, Jan Markell, Janet Parshal, Kirby Anderson’s Point of View, the New York Daily News, WND, the Blaze, Front Page Magazine and many others.

It is only recently Joel Richardson removed the list of names on his site stating “Joel has also been featured on or written for numerous radio, television and news outlets across the world.” The question is why omit the previous information and not even put a statement or comment that he would regard some of them as false teachers and unbelievers?

Richardson2

When dealing with unbelievers such as Glenn Beck, etc., he should concern himself more with the gospel and take on the Apostle Paul’s example, Philippians 3:14, “I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.”

beckjoel

What Genn Beck believes?

Glenn Beck stated that he is a Mormon,

The next question, with about 40 seconds to go, was about the deep doctrinal issues of Mormonism, and I’ve got to tell you something. I want you to put yourself in my shoes. Mormons, the doctrine is different. However, that’s what attracted me to it. For me, some of the things in traditional doctrine just doesn’t work, but it works for millions of other people and that’s great. Happens to work for millions of Mormons the other way. That’s great. You know, I’m not going to preach to you, you don’t have to preach to me. We’ll pray for each other and we’ll see each other on the other side hopefully.

Source: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/1945/?utm_source=glennbeck&utm_medium=contentcopy_link

Beck has acknowledged that the Mormon “doctrine is different” from traditional Christianity, but said that this was what attracted him to it, stating that “for me some of the things in traditional doctrine just doesn’t work.”[165] Beck is an ordained minister with the Universal Life Church Monastery.” Wikipedia

Glenn Beck by his statement is not a Christian as he does not believe the biblical gospel, in spite of this many have involved themselves with Glenn Beck including Joel Richardson.

beckjoel chuck-pierce-glenn-beck
Chuck Pierce mantles Glenn Beck. (Chuck Pierce/Facebook)

Chuck Pierce offered Glenn Beck a “new mantle for the future” at a ceremony at the Global Spheres Center on Sunday morning in Corinth, Texas.

Considering the conservative media voice is a Mormon, the act was immediately met with debate.

Pierce publicly addressed the debate on the post:

“Glenn Beck is devoted to Israel. The mantle was given from Israel. Many Jews have never had salvation experiences. Many individuals in Methodist, Baptist, Catholic churches, etc. may have never had salvation experiences. However, one could bear witness to Glenn’s testimony. I look forward to him, like all of us, experiencing a new dimension of God’s Spirit and Grace. Blessings!”

http://www.charismanews.com/us/48855-chuck-pierce-mantles-glenn-beck-in-church-ceremony

chuck1

Dave Hunts Berean Call got it spot on: “TBC: We have exposed some of the false teaching advanced by Chuck Pierce (see https://www.thebereancall.org/book/export/html/8902). His recent “mantling” (a reference to the mantle of Elijah and his giving Elisha that mantle) shows Pierce as too willing to operate outside of Scripture and his explanation for his actions sadly mangles Scripture. Pierce states, “Glenn Beck, like Cyrus, has a voice to change this nation.” Cyrus did nothing to change his nationality or Israel. He issued a decree allowing Israel to rebuild the temple, but that’s it. Pierce also references “prophets” (but not biblical) who have “prophesied that those in the Mormon religion will have revival.” Mormons do not know the Christ of the Bible, but still follow the “Christ” taught by a false prophet Joseph Smith who received a gospel from an alleged angel from heaven. “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians:1:8).”

Not only has Joel Richardson gone along with a Mormon but also other notable names of false teachers and organisations that are promoted, this includes Jim Bakker, Sid Roth, Mike Bickle, Walid Shoebat, Paul Wilbur, TBN, Pat Robertson 700 Club, CBN News, Joel Rosenburg (listed 2009), IHOP (International House of Prayer)Jonathan Cahn, Mark Biltz, Chuck Missler, OHOP, Daystar TV. Joel Richardson is a frequent Speaker at Billy Humphrey’s IHOP Atlanta.

(Joel Richardson’s personal website endorsements include people who are part of the NAR, the Elijah list, a Catholic Professor, and ecumenists, etc., why include such false teachers and deceivers on his personal website?

It makes you wonder as Rome is so busy concerning itself with Islam, that Joel Richardson is focused on an Islamic anti-Christ as a distraction from Rome’s true agenda.

Chuck Missler, Sid Roth, Joseph Farah, Daniel Juster, Billy Humphrey (IHOP), Paul Wilbur, Dr. William Kilpatrick (Catholic) who taught at Boston College (Jesuit) for many years, James W. Goll (Elijah List Member, NAR).

A brief summary of the most notable names on the Joel Richardson’s list of endorsements would ask the question, why is the RCC so focused and obsessed with with an anti-Christ religion such as Islam that many are becoming distracted from Rome’s anti-Christ’s real agenda?

Chuck Missler (CFR): is known for his teachings on the Nephilim, ufos and his teachings in the book of Enoch. Missler has also promoted and endorsed a book that teaches necromancy by Have Hart, Misser is also noted for his endorsement of Rick Warren, Missler said in his defense of Rick Warren, “Rick Warren, a pastor whom we regard very highly.“, Missler is also notable for his involvement with Promise Keepers and God TV‘s prosperity teachers Wendy and Rory Alec, as well as his involvement (1, 2) with a member of the Club of Rome Justo Lacunza-Balda, Joel Richardson is involved with Chuck Missler.

Sid Roth: is known for giving broadcast time to people who are promoting false dreams and false visions such as Patricia King and Joshua Mills, Sid Roth is known for giving air time to Todd Bentley and is very closely associated with TBN and Joel Richardson.

Joseph Farah: Is a promoter of Horn’s and Missler’s Quantum Mysticism, Joseph Farah and Chuck Missler have taken an interest in yet another Christian author, Jonathan Cahn, whose book, The Harbinger, has taken America by storm, debuting on two New York Best Seller lists in January.[36] Farah produced a DVD based on Cahn’s semi-fictional book called: The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment—centering upon supposed secret prophecies hidden in the Book of Isaiah that portends America’s doom. Missler promotes this production on his website and his online bookstore.[37]   

The Harbinger continues the pattern of finding coded secret messages about the future embedded in Scripture. Because this book is a similar genre, and because it is taking America by storm. It is important to examine whether it is affiliated with the other quantum collaborators. Its author Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, Joseph Farah has also been known as a Dominionist sympathizer [1] with radical right views, Farah just re-released his Dominionist-leaning 2005 book, Taking America Back: A Radical Plan to Revive Freedom, Morality, and Justice, as well introducing his latest work, The Tea Party Manifesto: A Vision for an American Rebirth earlier this year.

Daniel Juster:, “His academic background includes a B.A. in Philosophy, Wheaton College; M.Div., McCormick Seminary; Philosophy of Religion Graduate Program, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and Th.D., New Covenant International Seminary, an unaccredited Florida Seminary [1] . Juster holds a doctorate in theology from an unaccredited Florida Seminary. And was an adjunct professor at Fuller Seminary. He now teaches at The King’s University in Van Nuys, California.” (Wikipedia)

Juster is known for his support of IHOP and Mike Bickle, “Tikkun under Daniel Juster and IHOP under Mike Bickle have made a covenant with each other for the sake of the Kingdom of God. BOTH need to be grafted into each other. The church, according to Paul in Romans 11 has MUCH to gain through this, but Messianic Jews also need to be grafted into the church, and tap in on the GOOD of the last 2000 years of history. In THIS way, God can use the union of the “One New Man” of Ephesians 2, to ready Israel as a nation to be born again in a day. In the meantime, the Jews are coming into Messiah to make the greater goal possible one day.” (Statement by Daniel Juster)

Daniel Juster: is an adviser to Aglow International along with Dr. Che Ahn, Rev. Francis Frangipane, Rev. James W. Goll, Rev. Tom Hess, Rev. Cindy Jacobs, Rev. Rick Joyner, Mr. George Otis, Jr., Rev. Ed Silvoso, Rev. Dutch Sheets, Dr. C. Peter Wagner, Rev. Robert Weiner, Dr. Charles Pierce, etc.

Daniel Juster is also involved with Promise Keepers.

It is interesting to know that James W. Goll and Daniel Juster is on Joel Richardson’s endorsement page.

Billy Humphrey (IHOP): (1) Stated on the IHOP site Bill Humphrey is very much involved as being part of the Brownsville Revival and Christ for the Nations, After spending 12 ½ years in youth ministry in a thriving church in Metro Atlanta, the Lord began to deal with Billy and Maribeth to transition their lives and embrace the mandate of night and day prayer. Through a number of dramatic prophetic experiences, the Lord made it clear that they were to plant a house of prayer in Atlanta that would have as its central facet the reality of 24/7 worship and intercession. Through God’s sovereign plan, Billy and Maribeth met Mike Bickle in the summer of 2003 and it became clear that they were to move to Kansas City to work with the leadership team there in order to be trained to plant a house of prayer missions base in Atlanta, similar to the International House of Prayer in Kansas City.

Ministerial Recommendations

Billy and Maribeth have unusual leadership abilities. They have been trained in our context and have established in Atlanta a Missions Base similar to ours in Kansas City. As Director of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, I recommend the International House of Prayer Atlanta and invite you to consider partnering with them.

Mike Bickle
Director
IHOP-Kansas City

Billy Humphrey has the conviction for an International House of Prayer that is much needed. It has been prophesied that the city of Atlanta will be a revival city, and prayer is the way to revival. I commend him for his work and am pleased to endorse him. He is doing a wonderful job with this kingdom expression.

Bishop Wellington Boone
Senior Pastor
The Father’s House, Atlanta, Georgia
Speaker, Promise Keepers
Wellington Boone Ministries

IHOP openly Promotes Contemplative Prayer/ Visualization Based on Occultism and New Age Christianity; IHOP is also part of the latter rain movement, Bickle’s IHOP Forerunner Bookstore even stocks John Crowder’s book Miracle Workers, Reformers, and the New Mystics. (apprising ministries)

Paul Wilbur: Paul Wilbur is an ecumenist charismatic known in the Messianic movement which promotes the Davidic dominionist doctrine of raising Davids tabernacle, Paul Wilbur has been a supporter of the Catholic Charismatic group the Community of Jesus which organises an International and Interdenominational Praise Worship Conference, Paul Wilbur’s name is alongside the following Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Mike Bickle, Don Moen, Martin Nystrom, Michael Coleman (Integrity Music) Mike Herron, Tommy Tenney, Tom Inglis, Dott. Eric Belcher, Pat and Ron Allen, Anthony Sanchez, Palemon Camu, Shelley Elizabeth Hundley, Jill Austin were the main speakers at the latest Conferences.

I had written about Paul Wilbur some time back in 2012; I would also like you to know that Paul Wilbur has also been involved with IHOP and Promise Keepers.

Joel Richardson is also involved with Paul Wilbur. In their conferences together.

Dr. William Kilpatrick (Catholic): who taught at Boston College (Jesuit) for many years.
(Joel Richardson has this person on his personal website as an endorsement)

Quote from the link (Jesuit) above “Boston College is committed to maintaining and strengthening the Jesuit, Catholic mission of the University, and especially its commitment to integrating intellectual, personal, ethical, and religious formation; and to uniting high academic achievement with service to others.

Jesuits are active in all aspects of University life with a community of more than 150 Jesuits serving as faculty and administrators or studying for advanced degrees within Boston College’s various schools. Members of the Jesuit community also offer Ignatian retreats and spiritual direction to faculty, staff and students.”

James W. Goll: (Elijah List Member, NAR) James W. Goll is the President of Encounters Network, Director of Prayer Storm, and coordinates Encounters Alliance, a coalition of leaders. He is Director of God Encounters Training – an e-school of the heart and is a member of the Harvest International Ministries apostolic team. He has shared Jesus in more than 50 nations worldwide teaching and imparting the power of intercession, prophetic ministry, and life in the Spirit. James is the prolific author of numerous books and has also produced multiple study guides and hundreds of audio and video messages. James was married to Michal Ann for 32 years before her graduation to Heaven in the fall of 2008. James has four adult children who all love Jesus, and continues to make his home in the rolling hills of Franklin, Tennessee.

James Goll is also a supporter of John Crowder: Combining a depth of historical research and passion for Jesus, John Crowder brings together a rare blend of an emerging generation voice. His writings inspire me, challenge me, and make me turn my head. His calling to take the historical orthodoxy of the Holy Spirit packaged into a “today’s style” is an amazing work of art.
James W. Goll Cofounder, Encounters Network, and Prayer Storm Director

Question setting eschatology aside, why has Joel Schimmel and Jacob Prasch failed to exercise discernment with regards to Joel Richardson and advising people to take in what Joel Richardson is teaching?

There are clear ramifications to what is being done here, this is sidestepping the real issues into arguing a point that is not an essential doctrine, it is instead that Joel Richardson is supporting and housing heretical teachers who are leading many people away from essential doctrine. It is strongly advisable that we should be keeping away from anyone remotely in working partnership with Joel Richardson until he comes out against the very people he has mixed himself with.

    schimmelmcguire

Joel Schimmel, Roger Oakland, Pual McGuire and Mike Hoggard at the Red River Bible and Prophecy Conference. Joe Schimmel has again failed to see how dangerous it is when it comes to putting his discernment aside. Regardless of not yoking or endorsing, I believe that Joe Schimmel has compromised when it comes down to Paul McGuire and Prophecy Club speaker Mike Hoggard, you may as well be sitting next to the people at the Elijah list ran conference’s, it is sad to see that Roger Oakland is doing the same thing as Joe in this regard.

Paul McGuire: is a featured host on God TV as well being involved with the following people: Jonathan Cahn, Word of Faith teacher Cindy Jacobs, who admits she is a false prophet, Pro-Roman Catholic Walid Shoebat, Pat Boone is an elder in the Hayford’s church, and Trinity Broadcasting Network’s (TBN), Pat Boone is ecumenical because he is part of the Hayford’s Church as an elder (Biblical Discernment Ministries – Revised 2/99)

mcguirePaul McGuire and Chuck Pierce

For those who forgot Chuck Pierce was part of a group of people responsible
for bringing Todd Bentley to God TV along with C. Peter Wagner as can be
seen in this video, Chuck Pierce is called an Apostle.

Chuck Pierce is also responsible for restoring Todd Bentley to ministry
after Todd Bentley had got married to the woman, he committed adultery with
after he divorced his wife.

chuck-pierce-glenn-beckChuck Pierce gives Mormon Glenn Beck the Mantle,

Chuck Pierce says “Concerning Glenn Beck and his family,
I enjoyed being with and hosting them. Jesus would have done the same.
Glenn is a Mormon. However, many prophets have prophesied that
those in the Mormon religion will have revival. How would that
ever happen without someone like Falma praying and
someone like me opening my heart to embrace the
opportunity? I honestly know that it is “not by might nor by power
but by the Spirit” that any of this can change.”
Ref: Charisma News

mcguire cindy jacobsCindy Jacobs, Paul Mcguire, R. Loren Sandford and Hubert Synn (AKA Hubie Synn).

From this list in the image above you can see who Paul Mcguire’s bedfellows are, for example, Cindy Jacobs is a false prophet and is very much involved with C. Peter Wagner.

JESUS CULTURE’S SPIRITUAL MOTHER CINDY JACOBS ADMITS SHE’S A FALSE PROPHET

By on Jan 25, 2013 in Current Issues, Features   *****************<——

A

To quote Ken Silva here is an article about Cindy Jacobs.

This online apologetics and discernment ministry (OADM) Apprising Ministries continues to do our part to alert you to increasing syncretism within apostatizing mainstream evangelicalism. Below I give you another example of how what should be important doctrinal differences are rapidly being obscured.

Consider Jesus Culture’s Kim Walker-Smith’s Alleged Encounter With God The Father And Jesus Christ. Kim Walker-Smith (KWS) is worship leader with, and executive team member of, Jesus Culture—which is a ministry that extends from Bethel Church (BC) of heretical New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) Pastor Bill Johnson.

Also, KWS is/has been worship matrix at the BC. Once these NAR wingnuts were relegated to the hyper-charismatic shadows on the very outskirts of evangelicalism. However, a few weeks ago Louie Giglio made the ill-fated decision to bring in BC’s Jesus Culture into minister to his Passion 268 Generation.

Evangelical luminaries John Piper and Beth Moore also shared the platform with Jesus Culture at Passion 2013 further validating this group/movement that had, until then, been pretty much under the radar within mainstream evangelicalism. Which brings us around now to NAR “Apostle” Cindy Jacobs.

Here is a video where she is supposedly raising a child from the dead by commanding “the spirit of death” to leave the child:

As I’ve said before, if your spiritual discernment is so far off that you truly can’t see this woman is a false prophet, and you think she’s speaking for God, then you’d best question your relationship to Jesus. And yet, we find out that Cindy Jacobs is a regular speaker at Jesus Culture events.

With this in mind, below you’ll see Banning Liebscher from JC’s Revival Chats with Jacobs, whom he’ll call “one of our dear friends.” By the way, Liebsher is:

JC7
(source)

BC pastor Liebscher also tells us below that Cindy Jacobs has “become a real mom to our movement” and has “spoken a ton [of prophetic word] into what we’re doing.” It’s important here to note that he calls JC a “movement.”  Here’s Liebscher and Jacobs video link

This gives you another clear depiction of just how extremely off-target this Jesus Culture Movement is. Again, keep in mind here this all is an extension of heretical Bill Johnson’s BC, and together they’re so spiritually obtuse that they would, not only be promoting the work of Cindy Jacobs but think they’re learning from this false prophet.

Another one Paul Mcguire has can be seen with R. Loren Sandford in the conference; R. Loren Sandford is part of the (NAR) and The Elijah List called R. Loren Sandford.

elijahlist1
Background Information

elijahlist2

About R. Loren Sandford: R. Loren Sandford is the eldest son of John and Paula Sandford, widely recognized as pioneers in the charismatic renewal, prophetic ministry, and inner healing. A graduate of Fuller Theological Seminary, Loren has been in ministry full time since 1976 and is the founding pastor of New Song Fellowship in Denver, Colorado, where he serves as the pastoral coordinator for the western region of Partners in Harvest, (Ecumenical), the church affiliation that has grown from the Toronto outpouring. He is the author of “Purifying the Prophetic: Breaking Free from the Spirit of Self-fulfillment,”Understanding Prophetic People: Blessings and Problems with the Prophetic Gift,” and most recently, “The Prophetic Church: Wielding the Power to Change the World,” among others. Married since 1972, he and Beth have two daughters and one son who have collectively given them eight grandchildren. Loren is also a member of the Osage Nation, a Native American heritage he deeply treasures.

Partners in Harvest:

partnersinharvestClick on image to enlarge.

It is a relational network which draws together churches and ministries whose primary accountability structure is denominational in nature, yet who desire to relate with others flowing in revival. For this reason, Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans and many others join hands in unity under the broad banner of Jesus Christ.

(Herbert) Hubie Synn:  Best known for his book The Tales of a Wandering Prophet.

Wandering-prophet 369820_99_bkc

Hubie Synn has a history with Jonathan Cahn that Cahn created the forward to Hibie Synn’s book; Jonathan Cahn is known for his partnership with Kenneth Copeland.

Unity-In-Diversity-June-2014-meeting-with-Pope-Francis

Kenneth Copeland to the left of Pope Francis

It is not surprising as Jonathan Cahn is supported by Paul Mcguire.

mcguire and cahn cahncopeland

hubiebethelHubie Synn at Bill Johnsons called Bethel in Redding, Bill Johnson is a controversial teacher who promotes gnostic and new age mysticism, Hubie Synn demonstrates his enthusiasm for this church would be a good indication you would not want to be associated or influenced by this so-called self-professed prophet.

Why is Joe Schimmel, Jacob Prasch, and Moriel supporting and having unity with one of the people from the (NAR) namely Paul Mcguire?????

Remeber Jacobs Prasch own words about Paul Mcguire, Our friend Brother Paul McGuire.“, why is Moriel Ministries and Good Fight Ministries aligning themselves with people like Paul Mcguire who are supportive of the so-called prophets in Bill Johnsons camp, the New Apostolic Reformation, God TV and the Elijah list etc and this is done in the name of “biblical prophecy”, this should put into question the credibility of Jacob Prasch and Joe Schimmels ability to discern.

Who is Paul Mcguire?????

Paul McGuire: is a Senior Pastor at Paradise Mountain Church International and is a licensed minister through both Paradise Mountain Church International and the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel and is a professor and taught at Jack Hayford’s King’s College and Seminary for over 20 years, until the school relocated to Texas.

His ministry has been publicly endorsed by Jack Hayford, Francis Schaeffer, Edith Schaeffer, Tim and Beverly LaHaye, James and Shirley Dobson, Dr. DJ. James Kennedy, Pastor Chuck Smith, the late Dr. Bill Bright, Campus Crusade for Christs (Interfaith) and many others.

Paul Mcguire also stated that he was “discipled by Dr. Jack Hayford, who is one of his spiritual fathers.

Jack Hayford has been personal friends with Benny Hinn.


Paul Mcguire places Jacob Prasch name along side heretical and questionable teachings stating “among the leaders Paul has met, worked with or interviewed on a personal level are leaders like Jack Hayford, Tim LaHaye, Chuck Smith, David Hocking, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Rick Warren, the late Dr. D. James Kennedy, Charles Stanley, John McArthur, Dave Hunt, Rick Joyner, Jacob Prasch, Hank Hannegraff, Benny Hinn, General Shimon Erem, Joel Rosenberg, Waleed Shoebat, Jack Hibbs, Ed Hindson, Mark Hitchcock, Che Ahn, Hal Lindsey, Lou Engle Chuck Missler, the late Dr. Bill Bright, the Francis Schaeffer Edith Schaeffer and numerous other leaders.  An intensive study of God’s Word, along with a formative theology shaped by Francis Schaeffer and Jack Hayford, have given Paul a unique understanding of “Prophecy In The Local Church.”

Background on Jack Hayford (Biblical Discernment Ministries – Revised 2/99).

(a) Hayford spoke at the 1989 Billy Graham/Lausanne II conference (with John Wimber, David Yonggi Cho, and Dick Eastman), and has appeared at other ecumenical events such as Robert Schuller “success” conferences. [Hayford also endorsed Schuller’s 1996 autobiography — Prayer: My Soul’s Adventure With God.]

(b) In 10/91, Hayford visited Sydney, Australia with John Wimber (the “signs & wonders,” Church Growth, Power Evangelism, Vineyard Movement founder and leader who died in 1997) to hold a “holiness conference” (a number of Catholic priests also spoke at the conference).

(c) In the 10/91 issue of Charisma magazine, Hayford relates a vision of seeing Jesus seated in heaven and then rising from the throne. Hayford states: “As the anointing caught in the folds of His garments, it began to splash out and fall over the church.” Jesus then supposedly said, “I am beginning to rise now in preparation for my second coming. Those who will rise with me will share in this double portion of anointing.”

(d) Hayford praised Richard Foster for his efforts in bringing together all the streams of the church. (Foster is the head of Renovaré, an international ecumenical organization that espouses the use of guided imagery and visualization as means of obtaining “personal spiritual renewal.”)

Paul McGuire’s questionable teachings, (herescope) in a March 19 NewsWithViews article entitled, “Lucifer, Nephilim and the Fourth Dimensional DNA War.” In the excerpt below, note McGuire’s repeated reference to “the Fourth Dimension”—a New Age philosophy adopted by David (Paul) Yonggi Cho—author of the heretical book The Fourth Dimension published in 1979.[58] He also connects the idea of a Fourth Dimension the Nephilim in a preposterous New Age scenario that involves, ominously, corrupted human DNA:

Going back to the highly advanced civilizations before the Flood, beings descended upon the Earth from the Fourth Dimension to have sexual relations with human women, which produced the hybrid race of the Nephilim. Human beings, who originally inhabited planet Earth as it was intended, were immortal and lived in Paradise. They were created from the substance of the Earth based on original-source programming which was imbedded in their DNA by the Infinite Personal Living God the Universe.

However, the first man and woman chose to shatter their perfect world. Then they allowed their DNA code to be deconstructed by Fourth Dimensional energies and began to experience a brand new reality… death. Additionally, they opened a portal into the Fourth Dimension which allowed the sons of God to enter the physical world. These sons of God, the B’nai Elohim, began mating with human women and producing a race of god men called the Nephilim. This interbreeding re-programmed the DNA code of Mankind and a kind of DNA War began. The cosmic war between God and Lucifer that started in the Fourth Dimension was now being fought on Earth. The Flood of Noah was a pre-emptive strike by God to destroy the reprogrammed DNA code. But the sons of God returned to the Earth and the sexual relations with human women began again, bringing the return of the Nephilim, who currently walk among us, and the DNA war continues. [59] [all emphases added]

This “Fourth Dimensional DNA” teaching is totally foreign to the Word of God. It actually belongs to the New Age realm of Quantum Mysticism. [60] The occult concept of a “fourth dimension” is defined as an “astral plane” where one can access the realms of the paranormal and do “astral travel”! [61]

Note that the word “sin” does not appear in Paul McGuire’s teaching on Adam and Eve. Instead, he says that our first parents “opened a portal” for unseen cosmic warriors to invade the earth when their DNA was “re-programmed” by the “interbreeding” that went on with “Fourth Dimensional” beings. This is pure heresy. These ideas, not only sound like a Hollywood sci-fi script, but destroy the foundation of the Gospel of salvation. (Rom. 5:12-14)

McGuire offers more clues to how mortal believers engage the unseen forces in this “Fourth Dimensional war” in a NewWithViews article about “cosmic warfare” entitled, “The Future of America: Cosmic Warfare, Parallel Universes, and the Matrix.” As you read these excerpts note the urgent, militant, and mystical tone. Note its focus on spiritual “forces” and “energies,” and its many parallels to the mystical “Quantum Spirituality” taught by many New Age and NAR leaders:

  • Everything we see in our nation and world is the product of information from an invisible realm or parallel universe. What happens in the invisible realm produces, whether good or bad, the reality we see… when you look closely at the top of the Luciferian pyramid you see that it extends way beyond the present dimension in which we live into the invisible realm or parallel universe.
  • If you don’t like what you see in reality, then you must learn how to enter this invisible realm and access what some call the “Keys of the Kingdom.” These keys are spiritual mechanisms for changing reality. They are also referred to as spiritual weapons. They are the fastest, most efficient and
    powerful way to release power into the earth that can change reality!
  •  … see the massive supernatural armies of the Lord. Jesus Christ taught all those who follow His teachings how to use the supernatural keys of the kingdom which can change reality in the physical realm. This is no peripheral issue with Christ… it is central. He has restored both authority and dominion to those who are synchronized with His Word.
  • Mankind throughout history has used science and technology to harness power…. Many of the men like Einstein, Tesla and Edison did not come up with inventions and sources of power… [I] if you read about their lives you will see that all of these men had to develop methodologies that allowed them to access information supernaturally from another dimension. It is possible to access on a personal level, a societal level, and a global level the most powerful force in the Universe. It is not until men and women begin to learn how to access and direct that power that there can be change on a national, global and cosmic level. All of these works within the framework of the prophetic plan of God, for that is one of the laws regarding its use. [63] [all emphases added]
  • Think of the keys as a way to release the most powerful force in the universe into our reality. Currently, our world is filled with chaos and upheaval. There appears to be an opposing force at work that is composed of Luciferian energy. Through Bible prophecy, we know what the greater plan is and what this force intends to do with humanity and the world.
    … Jesus Christ clearly taught “Occupy until I come.”

The Bible does not direct believers to “access information supernaturally from another dimension” in order to “access” the “Keys of the Kingdom” so that they can “change reality in the physical realm”—or to take control over foreboding forces penetrating hyper-dimensional portals. Shamans have attempted to do these things for centuries—unholy underworld activities that are forbidden to Christians (Deut. 18:10; Rev. 9:21). This description of “powerful forces” reminds one of Daniel’s description of the Antichrist’s “god of forces” (Dan. 11:38). It sounds like “the Force” of Star Wars!

Besides appearing be be writing something out of an occult manual for witches, shamans, or sorcerers, McGuire wrests Jesus’ words, “Occupy until I come,” out of context and meaning. Luke 19:13 actually reads, “And he [the Lord Jesus] called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, ‘Occupy till I come’ [KJV].” Or, as the NASB reads, “’Do business with this until I come back.’” In the context of this passage, the Lord Jesus was giving the disciples a parable because they thought that He was going to set up His Kingdom immediately. Jesus was simply saying to them that He was going to have to go away first, but that He would return at a later time. In His absence, the Lord expected His servants to “occupy”—that is—to “carry on business” as good stewards of the resources He left them—until He came back. There is NO mention here of “cosmic warfare” or wielding “powerful forces,” or other such things. Nevertheless, this verse is a popular one in the NAR, and used to further the doctrines of Dominionism.

Despite these—and other unbiblical teachings—McGuire has gained an acceptance among other evangelicals. He was a featured speaker at the Red River Valley Bible and Prophecy Conference in Fargo-Moorhead March 14-17, alongside Eric Barger, Carl Teichrib, and Mike Hoggard.[64] He will join the speaking platform at the Pike’s Peak Prophecy Summit this summer in Colorado Springs, CO with several Postmodern Prophecy Paradigm (PPP) adherents including: Tom Horn, Chuck Missler, Cris Putnam, L.A. Marzulli, Gary Stearman, Jonathan Cahn, Joseph Farah, Douglas Woodward, Derek & Sharon Gilbert, Skiba, and others.[65] McGuire is also a professor at Jack Hayford’s King’s College and Seminary.[66]

Through the multi-faceted works of these notable leaders, and many more, this PPP deception continues to grow exponentially. And with the emerging convergence with the NAR, there is evidence that this cosmic militant warfare rhetoric will increase.
http://herescope.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/techno-dimensional-prayer-combat.html

Why is Joe Schimmel attending a conference, playing with Paul McGuire, who is part of the New Apostolic Reformation Teachings?

Jack Hayford introduces Peter Wagner and Paul Mcguire.

Jack Hayford is an avid proponent of exorcism (casting out demons) and has launched – from Hayford’s Van Nuys, CA megachurch – a global ministry described in a May 9, 2003 Associated Press story by AP religion writer Richard P. Ostling as teaching “do-it-yourself exorcism.” Jack Hayford gave a closing prayer at George W. Bush’s first inaugural prayer service, January 21, 2001.

In the 1993 video segment below, Jack Hayford introduces C. Peter Wagner’s talk on the newly-minted practice of “Spiritual Mapping.” (explanation of Spiritual Mapping – see footnote). At roughly 50 minutes into the talk, Wagner launched into an explanation of how the nation of Japan was collectively demonized, and the Japanese economy undermined, because the Japanese emperor had intercourse with a territorial demon called the Sun Goddess who, Wagner speculates, may be a succubus.

According to Daily Beast writer Max Blumenthal, Hayford is a confident of United States GOP Senator John Ensign. Jack Hayford is current president of the International Church of The Foursquare Gospel and pastor of the 20,000-plus member Van Nuys, California Church on the Way, announced in late May 2009 that he will conclude his five-year service as president of the Foursquare Gospel Pentecostal denomination, variously listed as having between 5 and 10 million members worldwide………

Other notable aspects of Hayford’s ministry and endorsements include his appointment of New World Order and international banking / Federal Reserve conspiracy theorist Paul McGuire, author of “The Day The Dollar Died”, to teach Biblical prophecy at Hayford’s King’s College.

One of McGuire’s courses was based on the Book of Daniel and liberally interwove New World Order / Illuminati / Federal Reserve conspiracy theory with Bible verse. McGuire is currently teaching a course based on the Book of Ezekiel.

Along with fellow conspiricist Gary Kah, Paul McGuire has appeared in early 2009 on GodTV, which claims to be able to reach several hundred million viewers worldwide, to promote NWO/Illuminati/Federal Reserve conspiracy theory ideas. McGuire has also recently begun producing YouTube video shorts, filmed in bucolic outdoor setting such as atop a bluff, next to the Ocean, in Malibu, California, in which McGuire expounds on apocalyptic and New World Order conspiracy themes.

[below: Paul McGuire describes depopulation scheme of evil elite who he claims are having body parts cloned in “secret laboratories”, and breeding, in those secret laboratories, a “genetically perfect master race”.]

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/6/18/204932/377

schimmelredriver
Since writing about Joe Schimmel’s participation at the Red River Prophecy Conference there has been some reaction as we had expected following excuses to justify what Joe Schimmel did by going along as a speaker at the conference, the same explanations has been used by Chuck Missler and Ray Comfort when they were challenged over simular issues about sharing platforms as speakers with notable false teachers etc.

Tony Palacio, who claims to work for GFM, states on Facebook, “If you are at all familiar with Good Fight Ministries, you would know that we are first and foremost a discernment ministry.”

It is telling for a discernment ministry if they knew the history of the Red River Prophecy Conference would they have accepted the invitation for Joe Schimmel to speak there? Or is it the case like Ray Comfort and Chuck Missler they will speak anywhere they are invited with the added caveat used to justify anything they set their minds to with the added “We have absolutely nothing to do with Paul McGuire or his ministry. Paul spoke at a conference where Joe was also invited to speak; that is the extent of it.

This is skipping around the point that GFM should have made it publically known and that they should have spoken out against the likes of Paul McGuire and Mike Hoggard but GFM did not do that as a discernment ministry should, people who either work for or defend GFM will make more excuses to counteract what is written here to the extent of making that old excuse of saying “Character Assassination”, “being untrue and unjustified” it would appear that they are deliberately avoiding the issues here than dealing with the very people who are not teaching correct theology, the meat and bones of this are that they do not like criticism.

On the No-pre trib group does acknowledge that Paul Mcguire does teach blasphemous teaching, the point is this if they now know that and Tony Palacio would admit this, and this is a good thing to hear, the question is why is there nothing written against Paul McGuire on the GFM website? Maybe they will, but that remains to be seen instead Joe Schimmel will be appearing a second time in a different conference that features Paul McGuire hosted by prophecy in the news and on this occasion he will also be sharing a platform with a member of Rev. Sun M’young, Moonie group “Inter-Religious and International Federation for World Peace”, Clyde Rivers.

pitn1 pitn
clyderivers1 schimmelredriver1

Tony Palacio then says:

You would have a point if Joe Schimmel joined Paul McGuire at these other questionable events with those other questionable speakers. That was not the case with the Red River Bible Conference. The hosts of this conference are good, God-fearing men with a passion for truth.

Tony Palacio is being disingenuous here he is demonstrating he knows far less about the Red River Bible Conference hosts then he claims to, he calls the organisers good, God-fearing men with a passion for truth, this is not a true statement, the conference has a history of false teachers but I also would not go to the extent to say that anyone of us is good, the Bible teaches in Luke’s gospel that God is the only one who has that right to be described as being good.

It is on us to be as Bereans examining backgrounds and the teachings of these people anything less than this standard would be to compromise.

Tony Palacio states:

The other speakers were excellent (Mike Hoggard, Carl Teichrib, Roger Oakland). I would put this in a MUCH different category than what you are making this out to be.

Is Mike Hoggard receiving an endorsement from GFM? This question needs to be asked since Tony Palacio works for GFM as stated on Facebook, he then speaks for GFM.

Let us examine Red River Prophecy Conference and Mike Hoggard.

Pastor Mike Hoggard and Red River Prophecy Conference:

POSTMODERN PROPHECY PARADIGM LEADER: Mike Hoggard (Referred to in these articles as
“PPP” leaders.) Mike Hoggard teaches all this in his broadcasts and his books.

TITLE OF ARTICLE: Techno-Dimensional Prayer Combat

Promoting new methods of hyper-spiritual warfare devised to combat the Nephilim, pagan gods, dark angels, extraterrestrials, and transhumanist monsters

Red River Valley Bible and Prophecy Conference in Fargo-Moorhead March 14-17, alongside Eric Barger, Carl Teichrib, and MIKE HOGGARD.[64] He will join the speaking platform at the Pike’s Peak Prophecy Summit this summer in Colorado Springs, CO with several Postmodern Prophecy Paradigm (PPP) adherents including: TOM HORN, CHUCK MISSLER, Cris Putnam, L.A. Marzulli, Gary Stearman, Jonathan Cahn, Joseph Farah, Douglas Woodward, Derek & Sharon Gilbert, Skiba, and others.[65] McGuire is also a professor at Jack Hayford’s King’s College and Seminary.[66]

Through the multi-faceted works of these notable leaders and much more, this PPP deception continues to grow exponentially. And with the emerging convergence with the NAR, there is evidence that this cosmic militant warfare rhetoric will increase.

GFM discernment ministry is showing a lack of discernment.

MIKE HOGGARD: PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS, “When you become born again you have
no sin in you, you enter into a state of sinlessness.

The following links do not imply endorsement, Mike Hoggard already have people asking the question is what he teaches agree with scripture?

  1. http://endtimesstudies.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/mike-hoggard-are-his-teachings.html
  2. http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/mike-hoggard-anti-apostasy…

    MIKE HOGGARD: ANTI-APOSTASY TEACHER OR THE NEXT HAROLD CAMPING?He believes that only the KJV should be used to study the Bible. I agree that it is the only truly accurate word for word English version, but to dismiss the originals from which it is translated as being incapable of giving understanding seems simply ridiculous. He however does not endorse using them and in fact tells you to avoid anyone who does, as you can’t trust them. The same could be said of anyone using the KJV, if they use it inappropriately. People never seem to check on their preachers. As already stated, Hoggard says there is no revelation to be had from the originals. I don’t know if he was misspeaking at the time, but I heard him quote a verse, then point out the verb tense, then say that it was not in in the original manuscript. I don’t know if he meant something other than what actually came out of his mouth, but what came out of his mouth was completely erroneous. The translators of the KJV were very careful to translate it as accurately as possible.

    Hoggard’s demoting the original manuscripts makes no sense. There is no KJV without them. The reason there is no revelation in them for him is that he 1) apparently doesn’t understand Hebrew or Greek, and 2) he can’t find all those lovely words and especially numbers that he loves so much to manipulate. You see, the original manuscripts do not have all the chapter and verse numbers that he finds so very important. For instance he says the number “22” stands for “revelation” because the book of Revelation has 22 chapters. Unfortunately for Hoggard, the original book of Revelation had no chapters. None of the books did. The epistles were merely letters just as we write emails. Chapters and verses were added by editors, not put in by God for some hidden meanings. Hoggard finds all this symbolism in the fact that some word or number falls in a verse of a particular number in one chapter or book, and the same word or number may occur in a chapter or verse of the same number in another book. This is not Bible study. This is playing games. We are supposed to be studying the Word and by that I mean the actual words. Not playing math games with verse and chapter numbers. Just as Camping assigned meanings to all sorts of numbers, Hoggard seems to have done the same thing. I do not deny that some numbers are obvious, such as the number “7” being God’s number, the number of perfection. But to spend all one’s time looking for numbers and multiples of numbers gets a little obsessive. When one spends so much time doing this, one starts seeing things that do not exist. Sometimes a two is just a two and an apple is just an apple.

    While on occasion, God will show us something deeper in a passage than what is understood at the literal level, our first method of study should be to simply read and study and understand a passage at the literal level. What I have noticed is that Pastor Hoggard is prone to spiritualizing Scripture all the time. Whenever he goes to a passage (more often than not an Old Testament passage), he is using the passage to discuss the numerology of it, or make some comparison to another Scripture, often with no seeming point in sight other than to say something about how great God is to have a hidden connection between the two. In fact he seems obsessed with all these hidden connections between Scriptures, as though these connections are far more important than anything it says at the literal level. For all the hours I have listened to him, I rarely hear him preach any Scriptural passage at any literal level. Many times the passage he is supposed to be preaching on isn’t really even addressed, as he gets off onto all sorts of spiritual connections that are supposed to give us some sort of revelation, or off on another tangent entirely. At the end of his sermons I feel like I haven’t learned anything at all about the passage or topic on which he is supposed to be preaching. Apparently I am not the only one, as he said that one of his listeners complained that he does not stick to topic. Hoggard’s response was that he did not feel that the person had any understanding of how Scripture needed to be studied.

    A further concern is that he seems to spend an inordinate amount of time preaching about the occult, the Masons, and all Satanic things about the end times. While a passing knowledge of these things is important for all Christians, it seems that everything he preaches comes back to this information. He seems as obsessed with this subject and everything related to Satan as he is about numbers. He takes occult legends and information and interprets the Bible from these sources rather than the other way around, even though he emphatically states that you should not bring anything to the Bible to interpret it other than the Bible itself.

    Let me give an example or two. He stated in one sermon that the ten horns of Daniel chapter seven were the ten kings of Atlantis. Say what? Atlantis? Yes, he said they were the ten kings of Atlantis and that this is what the Scriptures teach. This could only have been a “revelation” that he received for two reasons. First, he has stated that the book of Daniel is still sealed. He has said that if you buy any books, tapes, etc. about the book of Daniel you have thrown away your money, as they are sealed until the end and have not been opened yet. In spite of that declaration, he says that the Scriptures (specifically in Daniel, which is supposedly still sealed) teach that the ten horns were ten kings of Atlantis. So this must have come by “special revelation” since he says the book is sealed. Second, the Scriptures never teach about Atlantis, they never mention Atlantis, so anything about that must have been learned by supernatural revelation (or occult sources). And what was Atlantis? I believe he says it was the antediluvian world. Now, I would have to say that I suspect that it most probably is true that the legend of Atlantis is a corrupted version of the story of the antediluvian world. It makes a lot of sense that it would be, given the description. I also know that occult history as related down through the ages in the Babylonian mysteries teaches that Atlantis had ten kings. I think this is the true source of his “revelation.” I, however, do not accept occult history as being on a par with Scripture. And I certainly do not think we are to interpret Scripture with the occult as our guide. All we know about the antediluvian world is found in the first six chapters of Genesis, and nothing is mentioned of ten kings there.

jesusdna

Product Description: Science is catching up with the Bible! In this video, Pastor Michael Hoggard shows the amazing correlations between the Holy Bible and DNA“, and how the Gospel message is encoded in our genetic structure. This presentation is not only full of scientific fact but also contains a clear and simple salvation message. God’s Signature is visible throughout His entire creation, revealed in a numeric sequence called Fibonacci. Truly, Scripture is true, when the Apostle Paul exclaims, “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:20)

This teaching is never taught anywhere in the Bible as nothing about DNA is mentioned in the Bible.

In 1997, Mike Hoggard was at the Prophecy Club presenting a series of numbers and the Bible with the use of the tarot cards to explain what the Bible teaches concerning the book of revelations and satans grand master plan this can be seen at 5:24 secs.

 

Question: why do we need to use the tarot cards? If we go by Mike Hoggard’s logic we should only use the KJV, after all, we are told that GFM is a discernment ministry and that Mike Hoggard is an excellent Bible teacher that was very much promoted by the Prophecy Club.

Besides there are major problems with the prophecy club, Stan Johnson: Head of The Prophecy Club, one of the most error-prone prophetic ministries today, complete with a mix charismania, sensationalism, and speculation replacing Biblical truth.  He calls himself an apostle, and his wife, Leslie, is a prophetess. He is also a self-proclaimed prophet and has produced an anti-rapture book. Not surprising, these include Featured speakers make bizarre claims and predictions, and some have falsely predicted the start of the tribulation, Typical for these types of ministries, the basis is fear-mongering and manipulation, similar to cults.

Some of the speakers include Michael Rood:

to quote, Rood’s speculation about end time political events has made him a darling of the Prophecy Club and Christians who accept conspiracy theories and paranoia. The Prophecy Club promotes tapes by people who assert US government conspiracy (including complicity in 9/11 terrorism), Bible codes,”idolatry” pervading the Christian Church at large, war on Israel, America as “Mystery Babylon,” collapse of world economy, One World Government, a political Antichrist, King James version of the Bible only, God speaking audibly to them, and UFOs’ part in coming world events. In this milieu, speculation without evidence is rewarded (and even encouraged, since Prophecy Club fans view evidence against their speculation as extra reason to assume conspiracy). Rood has an ongoing relationship with Prophecy Club, having served as one of its speakers and appeared on panels ironically called “intelligence briefings.” The Club sells some of Roods tapes including “How Hanukkah Portrays the Rise and Fall of the Antichrist.”

http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/spl_rood.htm

It is also reported that:

Teachings out of the Prophecy Club exude British-Israelism, anti-government fear mongering and revolution to further an anti-Christian agenda. They promote militias, patriot groups, guns, Gematria, near death/out of body experiences for obtaining new revelation and interpretation of prophecy. Jews are told to flee America’s “coming destruction” and Prophecy Club adherents are urged to move to Belize, Brazil and elsewhere. Many prophecy teachers believe that America is Israel and that American Christians are God’s chosen people rather than the Jews. They believe that the impending destruction will be God’s wrath and judgment on the true “Israel” for permitting corruption, immorality, greed and materialism to become a way of life.

To incite rebellion against the American government, these prophecy teachers preach that the anti-Christian Illuminati/Council on Foreign Relations, which controls the U.S., must be eliminated and the nation brought under the control of Christians. Hence, the need for a Christian revolution. Young people are especially being conditioned for acceptance of this false teaching through exploitation of the Columbine massacre and other school shootings.  Targeted by the ubiquitous agitation propaganda of intelligence agents posing as Christian leaders, Christians and their children are being used to advance the same New World Order they think they are defeating.
https://watch.pair.com/pseudo-elijah.html

Other names include:

Jim Ammerman Dr. Bill Deagle  Berit Kjos Samantha Smith
Dr. Mark Andrews Dumitru Duduman Rod Lewis Fritz Springmeier
Gene Bacon Stephen Dollins Avi Lipkin Hayseed Stephens
Jeffrey A. Baker Norm Franz Doc Marquis Bill Still
Eric Barger Les Garrett Texe Marrs Carl Thomas
Binjamin Baruch Henry Gruver Don McAlvany (CNP) Tom Van Asperen
Larry Bates Ted Gunderson John McTernan Kevin Van Der Westhuizen
Dr. Nick Begich Jonathan Hansen Stan Monteith (CNP) Bob Wadsworth
Dave Benoit Norio Hayakawa Walt Myers Dr. James W. Wardner
Pastor Dan Bohler Len Horowitz Al Neal David Webber
Michael Boldea Kent Hovind Jeff Nyquist David Wegener
Symon Boschma Grant Jeffrey Gen. Ben Partin Gen. Ed Wheeler
Michael Bunker Quenton Jessop III Jim Phillips Richard Wiles
Marvin Byers Stan Johnson Howard Pittman Col. Speed Wilson
Paul Christopher Leslie Johnson Craig Roberts (CNP) Wally Wood
Michael CoffmanCNP Gary H. Kah Michael Rood Steven C. Wright
Terry L. Cook Peter Kershaw Tom Schumpert Ted Wright
Rick Coombes Cliff Kincaid (CNP) David J. Smith Ron Wyatt
Al Cuppett
These names were or are also listed in the Prophecy Club store 17
Dr. Cathy Burns Michael Hoggard Dr. Renny McLean Daniel Rodes
Jim Caldwell Eric Hovind Victor Mordecai Gaylon Ross
Lloyd Carpenter Eric Hufschmid Ken Peters Rex Russell, MD
Bob Cornuke Dr. Brey Keyton John Mark Pool Mike Sharman
Tom Deckard Col Moshe Leshem Debra Rae Barry Smith
Kevin DeMerit James Linzey Yacov Rambsel Pastor Mary Jean Stephens
David Dolan Ed Lixey Joyce Riley James Sundquist
Harold Eberle Milan Martin Gale Riplinger Laurence Tisdall
Ralph Epperson Dr. Winston Mazakis David Rivera Rebecca Totilo
Bob Griffin

I would strongly advise people to give those who have been in the prophecy club a wide birth.

Other topics Mike Hoggard teaches in his broadcasts are avaliable on Youtube this includes Nephilim and Space Alien DNA, Transhumanist “Alien Super Soldiers as in the days of Noah” and Bible Codes ect, this does leave Mike Hoggard open to much exmination and criticism by other people.

End Times Study – Mike Hoggard are his teachings Scriptural?

If you have not done the research yourself on the views you hold (instead of just trusting you were taught the truth or accepting that the scriptures they use are all that the Bible has to say on the subject), you should really take the time to do so.  You may be forced to change your views, if you want truth rather than clinging to the theology with which you were raised.  Satan has gone to great lengths to make sure that every theology has some truth and some lies, so that we would never have all the truth.  It is our job to ferret out the lies and abandon them, even when it is difficult and painful.  It is also our job to take everything that someone says and be a Berean, going to the Scriptures and checking everything they say to make sure they aren’t just picking and choosing the verses they like and ignoring the rest.  So, for your consideration, I give you my research on Mike Hoggard. It is not exhaustive, as I can’t listen to everything he has ever preached, so there may be much more than I have there, but it should be enough to give you an idea of whether you want to listen to everything he says without question.  Oh, and just for the record, yes, I do want you to check everything I write against the Scriptures too.  I am not afraid of the examination.

http://endtimesstudies.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/mike-hoggard-are-his-teachings.html

Mike Hoggard teachings on spiritual warfare were promoted by cutting edge ministries,

SpiritualWarefareComboSave $15 by buying this 2-DVD Set over buying them individually! Pastor Hoggard presents both the Godly and the Satanic sides in the never- ending spiritual battle in the Heavenlies

“The Seven Spirits of God” DVD reveals through a study of Revelation 1, that the spirit of Antichrist would manifest itself as the OPPOSITE of each of the seven spirits through lying spirits who seek to destroy lives. You will learn how to discern the manifestation of the Holy Spirit or the spirit of Antichrist in a person life. You will also be prepared to discern better the real Antichrist when he arises.

“Where Dragons Live” DVD reveals through Revelation 12, Jeremiah, Isaiah and Malachi how the demonic host can wreak severe spiritual damage on you and your family. Are you SURE you are saved? Are you SURE your loved ones are saved? Pastor Hoggard gives you the answer from Revelation 1:4! You will be so greatly encouraged by this revelation He poses the question of how we should see the Holy Spirit manifesting himself in our lives as he goes through each of the seven spirits and what they mean. Some say these should be manifested in signs and wonders, but Pastor Hoggard shows us the Biblical definition of these Seven Spirits of how they should be seen in a believer’s life. He also shows how the spirit of Antichrist would manifest itself as the OPPOSITE of each of the seven spirits through lying spirits who seek to destroy lives. You will learn how to discern the manifestation of the Holy Spirit or the spirit of Antichrist in a person life.

Great Spiritual Warfare study and you save money

No ministry should gain profit from its materials, as soon as money comes into this opens up many issues, the only way a person should place books and materials for marketing purposes is not to make money but to cover the publisher’s costs.

The whole issue on the subject of Spiritual Warfare has already been refuted by Bob De Way, False Spiritual Warfare Teachings: How the Church Becomes Pagan http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue109.htm

Mike Hoggard has received other concerns one is entitled “MIKE HOGGARD KING JAMES BIBLE CODE,” this says:

I first wrote about Mike Hoggard and various problems that I saw with his teachings back in March, (and I have continued to update it as I heard more things) and that article can be found at http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com/2012/03/mike-hoggard-anti-apostasy-teacher-or.html , but I decided that if I were going to be somewhat thorough, I had to take a closer look at Mike Hoggard’s King James Bible Code that he has created. Below I am going to put some of his quotes from his book, as well as some of his examples and show some of the problems. I will start by letting Hoggard tell you himself what this Bible Code is all about.
If I had to describe the King James Code in a nutshell, I would do it this way. The King James Bible contains a system of numbers that are consistently linked with words or phrases in the scriptures. It is understood that the Bible can be comprehended on many levels. The more you study the Scriptures and become accustomed to them, the more you understand the Divine symbols of certain passages that you never saw before. These must always come as a product of Divine Revelation.”
So the first thing you can see is that this comes not from a careful exegesis of the Word by laying precept upon precept, but is a product of Divine Revelation that cannot be had unless God grants you a special dispensation. Now while I agree that the Scriptures say that the Word is only spiritually discerned (this means that those who do not know the Lord as their personal Savior and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will not understand the spiritual applications of what they read), I do not agree that only some Christians will be granted this special privilege of understanding hidden things in the Bible that nobody else can ever know. I don’t believe God hides things from us, if we study. Any Christian should be able to read and understand the Bible, just as they read and understand any instructional book, for that is what it basically is, if they diligently study it.
GFM and Joe Schimmel’s staff member would lead you astray into listening to a teacher who uses tarot cards, teaches Bible codes, etc and refused to be corrected when they are called out about these obvious errors and would simply ignore them and brush it off as being untruthful and unjustified, would say one thing about GFM, Good Fight Ministries are bringing Good Fight Ministries into disrepute and this would include any ministry that would run to GFM defense, the more they advertise, endorse or who they promote the more information you have to show how all this deception comes together.

 
Kirk Cameron: (please click on the blue links for source reference) Joe Schimmel in the past shared platforms with Kirk Cameron and Neo-Calvinist Francis Chan on May 6th 2006, Schimmel has featured Kirk Cameron on his website, who is an ecumenist Lordship Salvation promoter and supporters of the liberal and pro-abortionist organisation such as the Salvation Army along with an Ecumenist and compromise TBN host Kirk Cameron, who had involvement with Glenn Beck who is a Mormon, Kirk has not even spoken against Glenn’s Mormon Beliefs but received Glenn Becks seal of approval as well as inviting a former evangelical pastor who converted to Roman Catholicism to TBN to make the case for Santa Claus as Cameron promotes his new film “Saving Christmas,” which seeks to convince Christians who choose not to celebrate the holiday, he has even urged Christians to celebrate Halloween.

Ray Comfort: Joel Schimmel is a long-standing supporter of Ray Comfort has he has been featured on Good Fight Ministries YouTube Channel video trailer Left behind or led astray as well as Good Fight Ministries links page. Ray Comfort gives his endorsement to Joe Schimmel and count’s Joe Schimmel as a friend, Ray Comfort is known for teaching the Lordship Salvation heresy, Ray Comfort teaches “Merely being sorry for your sins, or confessing them to God won’t help you. You must turn from sin (repent).”

SOURCE: LIVING WATERS ministry, SAVE YOURSELF SOME PAIN

Ray Comfort even attempts to use Matthew 7:21-23 to prove his Lordship Salvation heresy; thus corrupting the Scriptures…
On page 1197 of THE EVIDENCE BIBLE, Ray Comfort comments on Matthew 7:22,23…

“These are perhaps the most frightening verses in the Bible. Vast multitudes of professing Christians fit into the category spoken of here. They call Jesus ‘Lord,’ but they practice lawlessness. They profess faith in Jesus, but have no regard for the divine law. hey tell ‘fibs’ or ‘white’ lies, take things that belong to others, have a roaming eye for the opposite sex, etc. They are liars, thieves, and adulterers at heart, who will be cast from the gates of heaven into the jaws of hell.”SOURCE: THE EVIDENCE BIBLE, by Ray Comfort, pg. 1197; 2003, Bridge-Logos Publishers, Orlando, Florida

Ray Comfort is teaching works salvation! According to what we just read by Ray Comfort, every believer who is still living in deliberate sin won’t be allowed into Heaven.

The correct interpretation of Matthew 7:22,23 must include verse 21…

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

What is “the will of the Father”? The answer is found in John 6:40…

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The group in Matthew 7:21-23 were unsaved because they refused to do God’s will concerning salvation. It wasn’t because they still had personal sins in their life. Every believer still has sin in their life! We all sin every day. That’s not to say that we have God’s approval to sin, God forbid (Romans 3:31). It just means that even the best of Christians are still sinners. Ray Comfort wrestles the Scriptures to his destruction, and sadly for those who follow his false teachings.

It was Billy Graham that made the doctrine popular. Billy will usually tell his audience that salvation is, again, a free gift that cannot be earned no matter what we do. It is, by far, Graham’s terse persona that captivates and influences an audience rather than the Holy Spirit of God. Hypothetically speaking, how would you feel if you were in a car with someone the likes of whom I am about to describe? Imagine you are trying to get somewhere that you’ve never been before, and the person next to you says this:

“Okay, take a left, and then take a right, and then stop, back up, take another right. Wait. Take another left. My map is correct! Trust me! Stop. Go right again, then turn left. Can’t you go any faster? Okay, turn right here. Stop. Take a left, then take another left. Wait. Go back. Can’t you do anything right? Start over. Go right, then left, go sharply right now. Stop! Can’t you follow my directions? Back up and take another right. Wait, go left. Trust me, I know where I’m taking you!” That, reader, is the sad yet accurate equivalent of the plan of salvation according to Billy Graham. It will get you nowhere. “There is an increasing number of ‘evangelicals’ today who are preaching that in order for a man to be saved he must not only receive Christ as his Savior, but also must make Him absolute Lord and Master of his life. This doctrine has been termed “Lordship salvation” and has absolutely no support from the Word of God. It is, in fact, another subtle way Satan has invented to get Bible-believing men to add works to salvation without, perhaps, their realizing it, and to do it in such a way that it sounds spiritual and good” (Stanford, 87-88).

What is Lordship Salvation?

The following short explanation is on the Distinctives of Lordship Salvation (taken from Grace Community Church’s website) With comments (in Bold) by John Hayworth.
There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ’s death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly.
What, then, are the distinctions of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of “easy-believism”? The following are nine distinctive of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel.
First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30;20:21; 2 Pet. 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.
(Comment) Repentance Greek Metanoia means a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done. Biblical repentance involves a change of one’s thinking, a change of mind, as the scripture states:

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1).

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
(Acts 16:31)

According to Grace Fellowship, Paul and Silas would be teaching “easy-Believe” by telling this man that to be saved all that was necessary was for him to believe! Paul declared:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9)

Biblical Repentance is about changing one’s attitude towards the Lord Jesus:

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:31)

Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God’s work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Eph. 2:1-5,8). Real faith, therefore, cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Phil. 1:6; cf. Heb. 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing.

(Comment) Paul, in writing to the Gentiles believers in Rome, warned them about the possibility of them being “cut off”:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:21-22)

The writer to the Hebrews also speaks thus:

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Hebrews 3:14-15).    

These scriptures are written to believers, to people who profess Christ and have faith. The Holy Spirit speaks of God dealing out to people the “measure of faith.” (Romans 12:3)

Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Cor. 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that saving faith is simply being convinced or giving credence to the truth of the gospel and does not include a personal commitment to the person of Christ.
(Comment) The scriptures point out that there will be those that are weak and who struggle. The message is clear:
We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. (Romans 15:1)
…comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. (1 Thessalonians 5:14)
And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed. (Hebrews 12:13)
Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Cor. 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Gal. 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Rom. 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matt. 12:50), abide in God’s Word (John 8:31), keep God’s Word (John 17:6), do good works (Eph. 2:10), and continue in the faith (Col. 1:21-23; Heb. 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.
(Comment) A person who is born of God will have a changed life. They will no longer be unbelievers, and their life will begin to show evidence of this. Whereas before they did not desire Christ, now they do desire Him. The problem here is that people are not being encouraged to continue in Grace, a whole heap of other things is being piled on their shoulders. Rather than encourage believers to grow and trust Christ this encourages people to doubt whether they are really saved! It gives people the idea that unless they are sinlessly perfect they are not really saved!
I have met some dear people who came away from meetings led by proponents of Lordship Salvation doubting whether or not they were truly saved!
If fruit is present in their lives, this means that they are saved. The parable of the sower shows us that the seed that fell on good soil bears fruit but that no two plants will bear the same amount of fruit:
But other fell into good ground and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. (Matthew 13:8 & Mark 4:20) 
Some people’s lives will be more fruitful than others! Being less fruitful is no indication of lacking salvation.
Fifth, Scripture teaches that God’s gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3;Rom. 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven. In contrast, according to easy-believism, only the judicial aspects of salvation (e.g., justification, adoption, and positional sanctification) are guaranteed for believers in this life; practical sanctification and growth in grace require a post-conversion act of dedication.
(Comment) When a person first becomes a believer, born again by faith in Jesus Christ, they are NOT fully mature in the faith. Personal Sanctification and growth in Grace can only come “post-conversion”! When a person is born again of the Spirit of God they have been perfected but sanctification (or Holiness as it is also called) is a continual process:
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)
In other translations we are given to understand that being sanctified is a continual process:
those who are being sanctified. (NKJV), those who are being made holy. (NIV), those who are being sanctified. (HNV).
The Greek text uses the term ἁγιαζομένους (hagiazoumenous) which gives the sense of the sanctification being pronounce upon people. Just as the Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us, so the sanctification is a work of God. 
Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Rom. 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus’ lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ’s supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.
(Comment) Whenever the Gospel was preached in the scriptures we do not read anywhere where people were exhorted to submit to the Lordship of Christ. They were exhorted to believe in the Son of God. (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; 1John 5:13; John 1:12-13; Romans 4:13-25; Romans 5:1-2; 
Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Pet. 1:8-9; Rom. 8:28-30; 1 Cor. 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality.
(Comment) We cannot fault the scriptures! When reading this seventh distinctive do we not automatically begin to question, “Do I love Jesus?” Will we ever love Him enough?
Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one’s faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that disobedience and prolonged sin are no reason to doubt the reality of one’s faith.
(Comment) The commandments we have been given to follow are to Love God above all else and love everyone else as ourselves. 
Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Cor. 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing.
(Comment) When Paul was writing to the believers in Galatia, it was obvious from his letter that he considered them to have been believers because he addresses them as “brethren.” (Galatians 6:1) He speaks of them as being “known of God”. (Galatians 4:9) Paul writes to them to warn them of false teachers that had come amongst them. Judas Iscariot was an Apostle of Christ when he was sent out he had the power of God to heal the sick just as the other 11 Apostles could!
Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctions are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior.
This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and layperson must understand so that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations.
(Comment) On the surface LS may seem Biblical however it lends itself to the self-righteous judging of weak believers. Many believers struggle with the flesh, as Paul wrote:

…we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that, I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.   (Romans 7:14-25)

LS leaves so many under condemnation as they judge themselves as not living up to the measure of sinless perfection that this doctrine implies!
LS is a divisive doctrine. Church leaders will tell their charges to have nothing to do with other believers who do not hold to the Lordship position. 
                    
Teachers of LS deny that they teach a works-based Salvation. However, the very nature of LS proves otherwise. We are not saved by anything other than faith. It is our faith that justifies us, the fact that we believe in Christ, and nothing more:
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. (Titus 3:5-8)

LS implies that anyone who does not agree with this doctrine is teaching Antinomianism or “easy-believism” as they call it! This accusation was also leveled against Paul:

(as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil; that good may come? Whose damnation is just? (Romans 3:8)

For some good questions that every adherent of LS needs to answer:

http://www.gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes/?id=11

I Have for some time covered on Ray Comfort and his compromise and teaching the false gospel of Lordship Salvation makes Ray Comfort questionable, Ray Comfort been received, support, endorsements and acknowledgements from ecumenism, compromises and false teachers, as well as being in partnership with ecumenical and liberals organisations again would make you ask the question why should anyone accept who Moriel and Good Fight Ministries is asking you to listen to when it would be apparent that they are overlooking finer details of who it is they are in working partnership with.

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Ravi Zacharias: Is known catholic and ecumenical ties and he is known for women being ordained as elders such as Margaret Manning and  Jill Carattini which is a violation of scripture.

Manning has a B.A. in psychology and has performed “in pastoral roles” teaching Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM); now we understand why she was quick to share these myths in her defense of CSM:

With regards to Henri Nouwen, as an apologetics ministry, we would urge you to read Nouwen for yourself and then make up your mind as to Christian commitment. I would recommend you begin with his excellent book, The Return of the Prodigal Son.

With regard to Ravi quoting Nouwen or anyone else, you should know that it does not mean that we agree with every statement the author has ever written or spoken; rather, we believe that the book will, on the whole, be helpful to readers…

Henri Nouwen is often associated with contemplative prayer or spirituality. Contemplation, or contemplative prayer has been practiced throughout the church for millenia [sic] beginning in the early monastic movements of both the Western (Catholic) and Eastern (Byzantine) Church.

To “contemplate” is simply another term for the Hebrew understanding of “meditating” on God’s word, and simply another way to pray. Contemplative prayer and spirituality as it is being recovered in Christian worship and devotional life, is simply that—a recovery of ancient practices and teachings from church history.4

These fables could have come from Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster himself. Nouwen was more than just “often associated with” Contemplative/Centering Prayer; he was a superstar teacher of it.

Carattini is “ordained as a special minister in the Reformed Church of America.” The RCA itself has been in rebellion against God’s Word and ordaining women as elders for decades now:

In 1972 the denomination opened the offices of deacon and elder to women, and by 1979 women were accepted for ordination as ministers of Word and sacrament.

Today, women in the RCA serve as pastors, elders, and deacons. (source, bold theirs)

We’re told that “Rev.” Carattini has an apparent affinity for Frederick Buechner who:

found himself profoundly led by the words of George Buttrick, pastor of Madison Avenue Presbyterian Church.  Under Buttrick’s encouragement, Buechner enrolled at Union Theological Seminary and studied under such theologians as James Muilenburg, Reinhold Neibuhr, and Paul Tillich. (source)

Neither Neibuhr or Tillich even believed the historic doctrines of the Christian faith.5 It’s also interesting to note that one of “Rev.” Carattini’s favorite writers is Roman Catholic and mystic6 Flannery O’Connor:

Flannery O’Connor wrote out of a deep, thoroughly [Roman] Catholic vision of life,…and [was] educated in [Roman] Catholic schools…

O’Connor was deeply conversant in [Roman] Catholic theology — a glance at her library, on display in the Flannery O’Connor Room at Georgia State College, reveals works by Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Jacque Maritain, Leon Bloy, Ronald Knox, St. John of the Cross,… (source)

The immediate content of that piece was Manning defending Ravi Zacharias when he emphatically proclaimed as “one of the greatest Christian saints” apostate Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen (1932-1996):

Leaving aside Nouwen being professor of secular psychology at godless Harvard University, he was also a universalist. Here’s what Nouwen himself wrote not long before he died:

Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God’s house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God.1

Zacharias did offer a flimsy excuse in Ravi Zacharias Clarifies Calling Henri Nouwen Great Saint; Apprising Ministries.

Ravi Zacharias “Calls Word Faith Preacher Joyce Meyer “Such A Great Bible Teacher” God Is Using.”

Joyce Meyer a proven heretic and false teacher got Ravi Zacharias Seal of Approval that even Ray Comfort joins on her show.

RAVI ZACHARIAS: GOD INSPIRED NICKY GUMBEL IN HIS WORK WITH THE ALPHA COURSE

Gumbel: Ravi, you’re known all over the world as someone who proclaims the truth of the Christian faith…

Zacharias: And, by the way, what you all have done in this church through Alpha; God bless you for it. Absolutely bless you for it. I don’t know if there is a place in the world I go to, but that somebody comes up and says, “it was through the Alpha Course.”

Nicky, the Lord inspired you, brought a support team around you; and may its—may it just continue to grow—because it’s brought about in a way that takes people gently step by step. We like to think of three minute conversion stories; they really very seldom happen under a tree.

One link is put into another link in place, and then, you have the Holy Spirit of God having free reign. So thanks for what you’re all doing. It’s wonderful to see the impact you have globally, too.

Gumbel: Thank you so much Ravi.

http://apprising.org As a bit of background on Vicar Gumbel’s HTB, whom you’ll hear Zacharias praise below, I point you to Alpha Male: Can Nicky Gumbel and Holy Trinity Brompton save the Church of England? By Damian Thompson.

Thompson tells us:

A simple introduction to Christianity known as the Alpha Course, devised by the parish in the 1970s and still very much the intellectual property of HTB, has now been done by 20 million people across the world…

Nicky Gumbel,…has been vicar of Holy Trinity since 2005. He didn’t invent the Alpha Course — designed as an introduction to Jesus for non-believers or lukewarm churchgoers — but it’s thanks to his nervous energy that it has spread to 169 countries.

In 1996, [Roman Catholic] Cardinal Hume invited a team from HTB to Westminster Cathedral so he could discover whether it was compatible with Catholicism. ‘That really took us by surprise,’ Gumbel told me over tea in his vicarage last week. ‘It wasn’t just that they were so enthusiastic — it was that we hardly had to change anything when we developed Alpha for Catholics.’

Actually, the bigger surprise is that HTB — which at one point in its history would have regarded Catholics as barely Christian at all — is so Rome-friendly: literally so, in that Gumbel has friends and supporters in the upper reaches of the Vatican.

‘I love Catholics,’ he says with great emphasis, and it’s interesting that he doesn’t use the term ‘Roman Catholics’, which always sounds slightly sniffy to Catholic ears… But doesn’t Holy Trinity sometimes use the Alpha Course to poach Catholics?

‘No! When they do Alpha I say to them: do not come to HTB but go back to your Catholic parish. It’s part of the Church and I love the whole Church.’ (source)

I would also like to Point out as Ray Comfort and Ravi Zacharias at on live Television with Joice Meyer, Joyce Meyer is very much involved with Nicky Gumbel.

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Ray Comfort also has John MacArthur on his website as mentioned above Ray Comfort teaches the false gospel of Lordship salvation, but looking at John MacArthur he teaches that the fluid blood of Jesus does not atone for your sins instead the blood is a metaphor, here John MacArthur is totally rejecting the scriptures.

And so there is no efficacy in the fluid of Jesus, John MacArthur is not making a distinction between the Eucharist and the sacrificial offering of the literal blood for the law to be satisfied, this is to become a representation only of the event of our lord’s death, it is clear that what this is presenting is a false gospel.

And so there is no efficacy in the fluid of Jesus, John MacArthur is not making a distinction between the Eucharist and the sacrificial offering of the literal blood for the law to be satisfied, this is to become a representation only of the event of our lord’s death, it is clear that what this is presenting is a false gospel.

In 2008 at an Inspiring Excellence Conference, [Backup image, 14] Ray Comfort again shared the platform with John Avanzini, Jesse Duplantis, Mike Murdock and Rod Parsley.

In August 2009 Ray Comfort has associated himself with false prophets and ecumenist false teacher Pat Robertson.

On the 27th May 2014 it was brought to my attention this startling quote from Ray Comfort

Quoting Charles Spurgeon on discernment below on the right this is hypocritical of Ray Comfort as he has no discernment with regards to ecumenism but is compromised.

Ray Comfort Quoted “Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right.” Charles Spurgeon

Why does Ray Comfort not apply this to himself??????

Ray Comfort is confounding the situation here is a history of where Ray is compromising.

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Ray Comfort Says “For our partnership with the Salvation Army.”

sal6Published on 7 May 2012
Ray Comfort & Stuart Scott are in Hollywood with The Salvation Army open-air preaching on the corner of Hollywood and Vine.

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Papal Visit UK 2010

A British Christian, Ecumenical and known for supporting roles and advocates in the pro-homosexual community [see info…] reports “Commissioner Betty Matear of the Salvation Army and the Presidents of the ecumenical grouping Churches Together in England, have welcomed Pope Benedict XVI’s visitCommissioner John Matear, the Territorial Commander of the Salvation Army, hoped that the Papal visit would help the churches to “…together proclaim the good news of the Kingdom in word and deed”.

Action of Churches Together Scotland reports: Lieut – Colonel Alan Burns, Scotland Secretary for the Salvation Army says, ‘On behalf of Salvationists in Scotland I’m pleased to welcome Pope Benedict XV1. His visit, coinciding with the feast of St Ninian, will give Christians throughout the nation opportunity to collectively celebrate the life and work of the Churches throughout the ages.Statement from Scottish Christian: Salvation Army Commissioner Betty Matear, said they hoped Pope Benedict XVI’s visit would be a source of encouragement to all of England’s churches.

Commissioner Betty Matear of the Salvation Army: After the visit of the Pope to Westminster Abbey for the celebration of evening prayer, I was privileged to be invited to participate in a dinner and discussion hosted by our Government, involving Roman Catholic cardinals and bishops.

The Salvation Army has a long history of their involvement inside Freemasonry, (please not this information will be on the website soon, please click on the Freemasonry link above for our archive page)

p-29-a
Buckinghamshire Provincial Grand Lodge
David Malcolm Sawyer
Provincial Grand Chaplain
A committed member of the Salvation Army and became a Full-time Minister.ISSUE 21, April 2007 MQ Magazine.
http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-21/p-29.php
This ‘work’ has been so very compatible with my religious duties, and the great joy for me has been that I have always been able to carry out those Masonic duties as if I was wearing the Salvation Army uniform ‘S’ insignia on my collar.
There will inevitably be those who will say “Ah! But what about the Gospel of Christ – where does that fit into your belief as a Salvationist and your Masonic teaching!

Ray Comfort and Franklin Graham on TBN’S Praise The Lord Tonight.

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A couple of weeks ago here at Apprising Ministries, I showed that Franklin Graham was hosting TBN’S Praise the Lord program. At the time, it was part of a series of three such Praise the Lord (PtL) programs.

Also, you may also recall that I reminded you PtL is the main vehicle for fleecing the Christian flock used by Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), which some call Trinity Blasphemy Network.
 
With this in mind then, I point out to you tonight’s PtL schedule:

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Speaking at the Roman Catholic Belmont Abbey College, Noth Carolina, Dr. Graham said: “The gospel that built this school and the gospel that brings me here tonight is still the way to salvation” (Gastonia Gazette, November 22, 1967). That is plain enough. The then executive vice-president of Belmont Abbey College, Rev. Cuthbert E. Allen, agreed. He wrote, “I have followed Billy Graham’s career, and I must emphasize that he has been more Catholic than otherwise... Billy Graham is preaching a moral and evangelical theology most acceptable to Catholics.” (Personal letter, reproduced in Billy Graham and the Church of Rome, by I.R.K. Paisley, Appendix. Document No.3).

The question then has to be asked why is Ray Comfort compromising with the Graham’s ???

It also asks the question is Comforts Ministry simply a Business?

Considering he charges extortionate amounts of money for gospel materials, you can get them cheaper else where or for no cost at all.

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A friend told me “THERE COMES A TIME… WHEN ABSCISSION IS THE ONLY OPTION…

[TBN is, in reality, The Trinity Blasphemy Network, and Christians need to avoid it, not lend credibility to it, as Ray Comfort, etc. does here…]

I do not trust Franklin Graham and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.
He, as does his dad Billy Graham, believe Mormons are Christians.

Billy Graham believes people can be saved outside of Christ Jesus: This lie is clear here: 1:32 min:

 

That means to me that they are pure unadulterated heretics –and false prophets by biblical definition.

They are not true Christians as according to Scripture.
They will not enter heaven unless they repent of their aberrant ways.
They do not know nor preach the Jesus of the Bible.

End of story.

Many are those that will leave the way of the true God and Christ of the Cross and Resurrection eventually, in spite of being seemingly true in the beginning.

But as Scripture says, ‘they never were with us,’ they have deceived many into believing hey were leaders in the flock, but then they became leaders in leading others astray.

We must read their stuff with discernment and earnestly pray that God will keep us from straying after false leaders.”

Franklin Graham has supported ecumenical gatherings around the world such as the interfaith ecumenical “hope together.”

We also know that other liberal and ecumenists have supported Ray Comforts ministry.Such as the AFA, Franklin Graham, Ravi Zacharias, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, Dr. Norman Geisler, Bill Gothard, David Wilkerson, Joni Eareckson Tada, and many other Christian leaders. He has written for Billy Graham’s Decision magazine and Bill Bright’s Worldwide Challenge.

For More information on Ray Comfort, please go to http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/ray-comfort-way-of-the-master-is-not-wotm/

Having written this it would appear that eschatology is a much more essential matter than looking at the false teachings of the people who are being promoted by Moriel and Good Fight Ministries article I can only pray that the Lord will open the eyes of Moriel and Good Fight Ministries as stated at the beginning of the article the deception that is present in this day and age is not that clear and obvious that we need to be so careful that we too are not doing the same.

As time moves on we will be watching Joe Schimmel very closely.

God Bless you

Miguel Hayworth
Director/UK Apologetics Library 2015

PlayPlay

Kent Hovind’s Support for an anti-christian Pagan Teacher and Jew Hating Holocaust Denier


Kent Hovind mug shot.jpg

In the past I had found Kent’s material on creation science evangelism very useful in defense of the gospel on evolutionary philosophy, as a ministry we do not promote people who have questionable teachings, but upon the claims we investigate them, it is with our conclusion with great regret that UK Apologetics Library cannot recommend Kent’s ministry and would request that our readers disregard and reject Kent Hovind and his ministry, materials etc, this ministry requires Kent to retract his support for false teachers and enemies of the cross.


This video is not an endorsement.

The bible teaches that false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough!

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

After sending a warning as we are told to, to Kent Hovind’s ministry concerning his promoting of the Pagan teacher William P. Young that Kent was trying to get his many followers to feed on his material as there is a lot of meat in the Shack it has caused me great concern for Kent’s lack on discernment and knowledge on essential doctrine and so the importance of the gospel is de-emphasized in place of human sentiment.

Kent Hovind endorses Steven Anderson who is a pro-Palestinian, jew hating, holocaust denier and an anti-Semite and his DVD in cooperation with TexMars, the DVD Marching to Zion.


kent
 The image to the right illustrates
the point of Hovind’s defenders.
“What Kent said supersedes your reply.
Kent just stated for you to focus on the
will of god instead of him (his ministry,
his family ect)”

I was not sure if Kent was naive and basically ignorant on the issue of false teaching, this has gone beyond ignorance but Kent, his ministry and followers are showing they are rather being willingly ignorant fattened credulous sheep following the voice of a wolf.

We are told in scripture to mark them that cause division Romans 16:17 so what is the Lords will when it comes to essential doctrine and the handling of Gods word?

When it comes to error we cannot chew the meat and spit out the bones because there is more bones than meat to clarify as the bible predicted that the end time apostasy would being a famine for sound doctrine, Amos 8:10-12 “Then I will turn your festivals into morning And all your songs into lamentation; And I will bring sackcloth on everyone’s loins And baldness on every head. And I will make it like a time of mourning for an only son, And the end of it will be like a bitter day. “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord GOD, “When I will send a famine on the land, Not a famine for bread or a thirst for water, But rather for hearing the words of the LORD. “People will stagger from sea to sea And from the north even to the east; They will go to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, But they will not find it.

The question is who is infighting who the ones who bring in heresy are the ones causing the division and so we have a biblical mandate to object to and oppose false teachers this includes those who would defend them in public ministry, I call Kent Hovind to account of his actions and repent of this promotion of heretical teachers.

This is according to the Lords will as we read in Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 – 12 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is the point those who object to false teaching or teachers are normally judged by their defenders because they do not love the truth, Kent Hovind stated that he would recommend that we get the book called the Shack by William P. Young and read it, Kent is saying I recommend you drink the dirty and polluted water.

Just because Kent tells you to drink from that dirty glass of water would you do it? or would you drink from the glass that contains pure water?, Hebrews 10:22 talks about having “our bodies washed with pure water why would I want to drink in knowledge from contaminated water? when Kent should rather be encouraging people to stick to the scriptures.

If Kent promotes William P. Young as a man who has a lot of meat in his writings then we should look at what William P. Young does believe in terms of his doctrine the following description is what Kent is promoting here.

Shack Author Rejects Biblical Substitutionary Atonement

March 19, 2009

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spirituality/lighthousetrails/09/3-shack-atonement.htm

by John Lanagan
Free-lance writer

“For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted–you may well put up with it!” (2 Corinthians 11:4)

This “different spirit” was welcomed during a recent church service in Gresham, Oregon. Paul Young, author of The Shack, spoke to the East Hill congregation during the opening night of a five weekend series called, appropriately enough, The Shack. Sometimes on the verge of tears, and possessing great rapport with the crowd, Young was given a standing ovation.

Before the author spoke, a father stood before the congregation with his young child. His prayer was his child would love what the Lord loves, and hate the things the Lord hates. On that same altar stood a constructed replica of “the shack,” a stage prop for the evening’s festivities. The question must be asked, does the Lord love what is happening through The Shack?

In an interview with Pastor Kendall Adams of KAYP Radio, Paul Young denied the substitutionary Atonement of Christ.[1] (http://rock-life.com/files/shakcomp.mp3) In other words, the author of this bestselling book does not believe Christ was punished on the Cross by the Father for our sins. This is a central doctrine of our faith — that Jesus willingly took our place of punishment and that through His sacrifice we can have eternal life.

Orrel Steinkamp The Plumbline Volume 13, No.5. December 21108

“The Shack” is being described as a ‘Christian” novel and is currently ranked number one on the New York Times bestseller list for paperback fiction. Many believers are buying multiple copies and giving them to friends and family.” (Warren Smith). It is theological fiction in which

the author has cleverly embedded concepts that actually resemble eastern mysticism   When New Ager Oprah Winfrey loves and promotes the book it ought to signal a caution to Christians. Nevertheless, this book is rather becoming some sort of spiritual grid for hundreds of believers. In my home church the pastor’s wife has chosen the book for a ladies discussion group The book presents a grab bag of ideas that appear to have allusions to biblical ideas. But into this mix are seeded ideas that are totally anti-biblical and can easily be demonstrated to have their antecedent in a wide range of imaginations which eventually can be traced to eastern and even pagan ideas. This blend of apparent biblical ideas with mystical and popular imaginations is apparently hard to detect by those who are already conversant with the mystical ideas now gaining a hearing in the Wider evangelical community. This book is an attempt to produce an apparent biblical husk with New Age and inter-spiritual kernels. Having said this, why would self-confessed evangelicals ever fall for this?

First, biblical understanding is fast eroding. Emergent Postmodern Christian writers and speakers are gaining nearly full acceptance by the larger evangelical community. This being true how can we expect “soccer mom” Christianity to draw the necessary distinctions? Secondly, the book is skillfully written to draw the reader emotionally into the book. This tends to disguise non-biblical truths embedded in the narrative.

Panentheism:

Young’s description of God seems to be borrowed front the renting of Paul Tillich (1886-1965) in that Young uses a famous saying of Tillich that “God is the “ground of all being.” to explain his view of God.

“‘Young presents a Tillich like view of God where Elousia/Papa herself as “they ground of all being that dwells in around and through all things.” (p. 112). Tillich’s view has always been viewed as pantheism/panentheism. For the sake of explanation, pantheism states that God is all things, while panentheism teaches that God inhabits all living things. (Larry DeBruyn). Young creates a new name for God, which appears from the Hebrew “EL” and Ousia” which is Platonic Greek for “being.” Tillich taught that God was not a personal being but being itself. Millard Erickson gives a helpful analogy that in pantheism a tree is God, but in Panentheism its the sap in the tree that is the being of God.

Panentheism is a core belief in all contemplative experience and teaching. As the sap in a tree is suggested to be God, so God is buried in the depths of every human being. The goal of contemplative technique is to find the internal divine in all people. This teaching leads directly to inter-spirituality. Other faiths are also striving to contact this internal God.

STAY AWAY FROM “THE SHACK”
By on Sep 15, 2008 in Current Issues
http://apprising.org/2008/09/15/stay-away-from-the-shack/

There has been much talk concerning, and questions about, a book written by William P. Young called The Shack. In an editorial review by contemplative and Emerging Church author Eugene Peterson at Amazon.com for The Shack by William P. Young we read:

When the imagination of a writer and the passion of a theologian cross-fertilize the result is a novel on the order of “The Shack.” This book has the potential to do for our generation what John Bunyan’s “Pilgrim’s Progress” did for his. It’s that good! –Eugene Peterson, Professor Emeritus of Spiritual Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, B.C.
(Online source)

Well now, at least Apprising Ministries agrees on the fertilizer part. So as a service to our readers we draw together into this one source some of what we consider to be the better reviews and discussions about this book. My advice: Stay away from The Shack.

Peterson’s mystic musings aside, here’s a far more accurate assessment concerning why you should stay away from The Shack by Tim Challies.

In his own review Challies points out:

I am certain that there is no other book I’ve been asked to review more times than William P. Young’s The Shack, a book that is currently well within the top-100 best-selling titles at Amazon. The book, it seems, is becoming a hit and especially so among students and among those who are part of the Emergent Church… Young did not write this book for the story. This book is all about the content and about the teaching it contains…

Eugene Peterson grasps this, saying in his glowing endorsement,… “This book has the potential to do for our generation what John Bunyan’s “Pilgrim’s Progress” did for his. It’s that good!” Could it really be that good? Is it good enough to warrant positive comparison to the English-language book that has been read more widely than any other save the Bible? Let’s turn to the book’s content and find out…

Throughout the book there is this kind of subversive strain teaching that new and fresh revelation is much more relevant and important than the kind of knowledge we gain in sermons or seminaries or Scripture. Young’s readers seem to be picking up on this. Read this brief Amazon review as an example: “Wish I could take back all the years in seminary! The years the locusts ate???? Systematic theology was never this good. Shack will be read again and again. With relish. Shared with friends, family, and strangers. I can fly! It’s a gift. ‘Discipleship’ will never be lessons again.”

Another reviewer warns that many Christians will find the book difficult to read because of their “modern” mindsets. “If one is coming from a strong, propositional and, perhaps, fundamentalist perspective to the Bible, this book certainly will be threatening.” Still another says “This book was so shocking to my ‘staid’ Christianity but it was eye opening to my own thoughts about who I think God is.” At several points I felt as if the author was encouraging the reader to doubt what they know of Christianity—to deconstruct what they know of Christian theology—and to embrace something new. But the faith Young reconstructs is simply not the faith of the Bible.

Because of the sheer volume of error and because of the importance of the doctrines reinvented by the author, I would encourage Christians, and especially young Christians, to decline this invitation to meet with God in The Shack. It is not worth reading for the story and certainly not worth reading for the theology. (Online source)

You can read Challies’ full in-depth deconstruction of The Shack here.

I don’t find myself in agreement very much any more with Chuck Colson due to his ecumenical views. However, at the same time he can hardly be called a radical so for our purposes here in exposing the danger and errors of The Shack we will share that in his article “Stay Out of ‘The Shack’”Colson has said:

When the prophet Isaiah and the apostle John caught glimpses of God, they were overcome with despair at their own unworthiness in the light of His glory. The same could be said of Daniel or Paul, or any number of figures from Scripture. But when the protagonist of a new book called The Shack is introduced to the Father of heaven, he is greeted by a “large, beaming, African-American woman” who goes by the name of Papa… Okay, it is only an allegory. But like Pilgrim’s Progress, allegories contain deep truths. That is my problem. It is the author’s low view of Scripture. (Online source)

Then recently over at Slice of Laodicea Ingrid Schlueter informed us:

Pastor Larry DeBruyn will be discussing the wildly successful novel by William Young called, The Shack on Crosstalk today. I received an email from a young reader a couple of days ago, and she sincerely wondered how the “Christ” in The Shack was a counterfeit Jesus. Many are being moved today by emotional stories, but are not looking closely, through the lens of Scripture, at who the Jesus is that writers are talking about. This program will alert Shack fans that the Jesus presented by William Young is not the Jesus of the Scriptures. (Online source)

You can download and/or listen to that program here.

My friend Berit Kjos also takes a look at The Shack in Deceived by a counterfeit “Jesus”: The twisted “truths” of The Shack & A Course in Miracles where she points out:

The two books share a common message. I saw a stark preview of it back in 1992. Skimming through a magazine called Well-Being Journal, I noticed this New Age “insight” from the author’s “inner guide:”

“Many people believe in evil, sin, and dark forces. It is your purpose to teach the opposite which is the Truth: there is no devil, no hell, no sin, no guilt except in the creative mind of humankind.”

I heard similar deceptions at Gorbachev’s 1997 State of the World Forum. At the time, keynote speaker Marianne Williamson was touting the Kabbalah, not A Course in Miracles (ACIM). While those New Age “insights” would fit both, they are best expressed through ACIM, which Williamson is now popularizing through Oprah Winfrey’s weekly radio program.

The Shack calls for a similar denial of reality. Yet countless pastors and church leaders are delighting in its message. By ignoring (or redefining) sin and guilt, they embrace an inclusive but counterfeit “Christianity” that draws crowds but distorts the Bible. Discounting Satan as well, they weaken God’s warnings about deception. No wonder His armor for today’s spiritual war became an early victim of this spreading assault on Truth. (Online source)

Matt Slick of CARM also discusses The Shack and interviews author William Young on his CARM Radio Show Podcast, which you can download here.

J.P. Holding of Tektonics, who was one of the very first people to ever pick up an article of mine, weighs in with his review of The Shack, which you can read right here.

Dr. Norman Geisler and Bill Roach also demolish The Shack in their short, but thorough, analysis here.

And the following is a book review of The Shack by Dr. Gary Gilley from his September 2008 edition of Think On These Things, which is a ministry of Southern View Chapel where Gilley is pastor and reprinted by permission:

The Shack
by William P. Young

One of the most popular and controversial Christian books of recent years is the fictional work by first time author William Young. Evangelical recording artist Michael W. Smith states, “The Shack will leave you craving for the presence of God.” Author Eugene Peterson believes “this book has the potential to do for our generation what John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress did for his. It’s that good!” On the other hand, seminary president Al Mohler says the book “includes undiluted heresy” and many concur. Given its popularity (number one on the New York Times bestseller list for paperback fiction), influence and mixed reviews, we need to take a careful look.

Good Christian fiction has the ability to get across a message in an indirect, non-threatening yet powerful, way. Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress is the most successful in the genre and has been mightily used of the Lord to teach spiritual truth. What determines the value of fiction is how closely it adheres to Scripture. It is by these criteria that we must measure The Shack.

As a novel, while well written, its storyline is not one that would attract many people. The plot is developed around the abduction and murder of six year old Missy, beloved daughter of nominal Christian Mackenzie Philips (Mack). This great tragedy has, of course, shaped the lives of Mack and his family in horrific ways. Mack’s life is simply described as living under “The Great Sadness.” Then one day four years later God drops Mack a note in his mail box and invites him to the isolated shack where Missy was murdered. Obviously skeptical, Mack takes a chance that God might really show up and heads alone to the shack. There God, in the form of all three members of the Trinity, meets with him for the weekend. God gives Mack new insight about Himself, about life, pain and tragedy and Mack goes home a new man.

It should be mentioned that the Trinity takes human form in the novel: the Father (called Papa throughout) appears as a large African-American woman who loves to cook; the Holy Spirit is called Sarayu (Sanskrit for air or wind) and is a small Asian woman who is translucent; and Jesus is a middle-age man, presumably of Jewish descent, who is a carpenter. Much
interesting dialog takes place as members of the Trinity take turns explaining to Mack what they want him to know.

The Shack, like many books today, decries theology on the one hand while offering its own brand on the other. A story has the advantage of putting forth doctrine in a livelier manner than a systematic work can do—which is why we find most of Scripture in narrative form. The question is, does Young’s theology agree with God’s as revealed in Scripture? The short answer is “sometimes” but often Young totally misses the mark.

Scripture and the Church

Young’s message centers on the Trinity and salvation, but before we tackle Young’s main objective it is significant that he has a couple of axes to grind concerning the Bible and the church. Young passionately rejects the cessationist view of Scripture which his character Mack was taught in seminary: “In seminary he had been taught that God had completely stopped any overt communication with moderns, preferring to have them only listen to and follow sacred Scripture, properly interpreted, of course. God’s voice had been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellects…Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book” (pp. 65-66). Young would prefer a God who communicates with us in our thoughts rather than on paper (i.e. the Bible) (p. 195). Realizing the subjectivity of such revelation he assures us that we will “begin to better recognize [the Holy Spirit’s] voice as we continue to grow our relationship” (p. 196). Scripture comes in second to inner voices in Young’s theology. The Bible puts God in a box; inner voices make God alive and fresh. This is what Young wants to convey.

Young also has little good to say about the church or other related institutions. While Mack had attended seminary, “none of his training was helping in the least” when it came to understanding God (p. 91). He consistently depicts the activity of the church in a negative light: Mack is pretty sure he hasn’t met the church Jesus loves (p. 177), which is all about relationships, “not a bunch of exhausting work and long list of demands, and not sitting in endless meetings staring at the backs of people’s heads, people he really didn’t even know” (p. 178). Sunday school (p. 98) and family devotions (p. 107) both take hits as well. Systematic theology itself takes a postmodern broadside as the Holy Spirit says, “I have a great fondness for uncertainty” (p. 203). While Scripture does not place such words in the mouth of the Holy Spirit, Young’s love for uncertainty becomes frustratingly clear as he outlines his concept of salvation.

Salvation

When Mack asks how he can be part of the church, Jesus replies, “It’s simple Mack, it’s all about relationships and simply sharing life” (p. 178). On an earlier occasion Jesus tells Mack that he can get out of his mess “by re-turning. By turning back to me. By giving up your ways of power and manipulation and just come back to me” (p. 147). Yet nowhere in The Shack is the reader given a clear understanding of the gospel. When Mack asks God what Jesus accomplished by dying Mack is told, “Through his death and resurrection, I am now fully reconciled to the world.” When pressed to explain, God says that He is reconciled to “the whole world,” not just the believer (p. 192). Does this mean that all will be saved? Young never goes that far, however he certainly gives that impression when Mack’s father (who was an awful man and showed no signs of being saved) is found in heaven (pp. 214-215), when God says repeatedly He is particularly fond of all people, when God claims that He has forgiven all sins against Him (e.g. 118-119), that He does not “do humiliation, or guilt, or condemnation” (p. 223) and, contrary to large hunks of Scripture, God is not a God of judgment. “I don’t need to punish people for sin, sin is its own punishment, devouring you from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my job to cure it” (p. 120). While Young’s comment has some validity it does not faithfully reflect the teaching of Scripture which portray God as actively involved in the punishment of sin.

Young further muddies the waters as he has Jesus reply to Mack’s question, “Is that what it means to be a Christian?” Jesus says, “Who said anything about being a Christian? I’m not a Christian…Those who love me come from every system that exists. They were Buddhists or Mormons, Baptists or Muslims, Democrat, Republicans and many who don’t vote or are not part of any Sunday morning or religious institutions… I have no desire to make them Christians, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my beloved.” With Mack we are confused. “Does that mean,” asks Mack, “that all roads will lead to you?” Jesus denies this but then says, “What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you” (p. 182). Jesus apparently means that He will travel any road to “join them in their transformation.” The implication is that people are on many roads that lead to their self-transformation. Jesus will join people where they are on that road and apparently aid in that transformation. This is certainly not the teaching of Scripture, which tells us that we must come to the one road, the narrow way that leads to God through Jesus Christ.

The Godhead

The main thrust of the novel concerns itself with an understanding of God and how we are to be in relationship to Him. As already noted, the method by which mankind comes into the right relationship with God is cloudy at best in The Shack. Young’s Trinity is equally confusing. The author does not develop his understanding of God exclusively from Scripture and, in fact, often contradicts biblical teaching. The first issue is that of imagining and presenting human forms for the members of the Trinity. While some slack might be given for Young’s portrait of Jesus, who came in human form (although we don’t know what He looks like), the first two of the Ten Commandments would forbid us depicting the Father or the Holy Spirit in physical form. When we create an image of God in our imagination we then attempt to relate to that image—which is inevitably a false one. This is the essence of idolatry and is forbidden in the Word.

Further, the portrayal of God throughout the novel is one which humanizes Him rather than exalts Him. Young quotes Jacques Ellul, “No matter what God’s power may be, the first aspect of God is never that of absolute Master, the Almighty. It is that of the God who puts Himself on our human level and limits Himself” (p. 88). Really? This quote is in contradiction to the entirety of biblical revelation which first and often declares God to be absolute Master, yet in no way mitigates the incarnation, as Young and Ellul are trying to claim.

Young further humanizes God and contradicts Scripture by teaching that all the members of the Trinity took human form at the incarnation: “When we three spoke ourself into human existence as the Son of God, we became fully human” (p. 99). Is Young advocating modalism (an ancient heresy which teaches that the Trinity is not composed of three distinct members but three distinct modes in which God appears throughout human history)? If not, it is abundantly clear that Young believes that the Father died on the cross with the Son and bears the marks of the cross to this day (pp. 95-95, 164). He also does not believe that the Father abandoned Jesus on the cross as Scripture declares (p. 96). And any concept of authority and submission in the Godhead is denied (pp. 122, 145), although 1 Cor. 11:1-3 is clear that such authority/submission exists. More than that, God submits to us as well (p. 145). By the end of the book God is reduced to being our servant as we are His (it’s all about relationships, not authority) (pp. 236-237).

The very essence of God is challenged when Young, quoting from Unitarian-Universalist, Buckminster Fuller, declares God to be a verb not a noun (pp. 194, 204). In a related statement, Young has Jesus say of the Holy Spirit, “She is Creativity; she is Action; she is Breathing of Life” (p. 110). Yet the Bible presents God as a person (noun) not an action (verb). When this truth is denied we are moving from the biblical understanding of a personal God to an Eastern understanding of God in everything. [1] Thus, we are not surprised when Mack asks the Holy Spirit if he will see her again he is told, “Of course, you might see me in a piece of art, or music, or silence, or through people, or in creation, or in your joy and sorrow” (p. 198). This is not biblical teaching. This idea seems repeated in a line from a song Missy creates, “Come kiss me wind and take my breath till you and I are one” (p. 233). At what point do we become one with creation? Again, this is an Eastern concept, not a biblical one. Young reinforces his Eastern leanings with a statement right out of New Age (New Spirituality) teachings: Papa tells Mack, “Just say it out loud. There is power in what my children declare” (p. 227). Rhonda Byrne would echo this idea in her book, The Secret, but you will not find it in the Bible.

Further, we are told Jesus “as a human being, had no power within himself to heal anyone” (p. 100). So how did he do so? By trusting in the Holy Spirit. Jesus, the Spirit says, “is just the first to do it to the uttermost—the first to absolutely trust my life within him…” (p. 100). There is enough truth here to be confusing but not accurate. Jesus, never ceasing to be fully God, had all Divine power dwelling within Him. That He chose to limit His use of that power and rely on the Holy Spirit while on earth in no way diminishes His essence. While Jesus is our example He is not a guru blazing a trail in which in this life we too can be like God. This idea smacks of New Age teaching, not Scripture. Jesus even tells Mack that “God, who is the ground of all being, dwells in, around, and through all things—ultimately emerging as the real” (p. 112). This is pure New Age spirituality.

The Shack, while occasionally getting things right is, in the end, a dangerous piece of fiction. It undermines Scripture and the church, presents at best a mutilated gospel, misrepresents the biblical teachings concerning the Godhead and offers a New Age understanding of God and the universe. This is not a great novel to explain tragedy and pain. It is a misleading work which will confuse many and lead others astray.

1 God “in” everything is known as panentheism—an Eastern belief akin to pantheism which teaches that God IS everything. In reality there is very little difference between the two.

 

 Kent Hovind mug shot.jpghttps://i1.wp.com/www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/images/pastor.jpg?resize=145%2C200

                       Kent Hovind      &       Pastor Steven Anderson

anderson1Kent Hovind has been a long supporter and friend of Steven Anderson this also presents itself a problem, without getting into the whole debate of Pre/Mid/Post Tribulation issue Steven Anderson teaches that his view is essential doctrine and that the Pre-Tribbers are false teachers and heretics, for me eschatology (the study of end time events) should not be a matter of division, I also know that Alex Jones of Infowars is a supporter of Steven Anderson since he was attacked by US Police in his car, the problem is not only with his bad theology such as the idea misrepresenting the Rabbinical Law concerning the Old and New Covenant laws, that homosexual people should be executed and killed and that he hates gay people and why he hates Obama, but also his promotion and support of anti-Semitism, holocaust being a hoax and pro-palestinian views, in this Steven Anderson has been noted for acting deceitfully and acting without integrity.

andersonfreepalestine - Copy

Does Kent Hovind really believe that the us government should kill homosexuals?

We believe in the new testament the conduct of homosexuality is an abomination and abhorrent to God in the Bible, we also believe homosexuals can be forgiven, we know that Jesus never calls for the extermination of homosexuals under the new covenant law and so the new testament does not the Law of Moses on the issue of sin, this shows Pastor Steven Anderson is twisting the scriptures, he also teaches that we should be against Israel to the point he would have us support pro-Palestinian views that are fueled by Islamic terrorism hell-bent on seeking for the destruction and annihilation of all Jews, there is enough evidence to show the support for Christian Palestinians, I have seen common statements from BDS supporters wearing free Palestine t-shirts showing support for national socialistic views as a way to combat Zionists or the Jews who are from Israel.

Wild Guess Date Setting.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

It is very dangerous to speculate what year our lord returns and if it is only for the Father to know then we have not been given consent by God to enter into this type of discussion, Kent Hovind stated some one asked him when he thinks Jesus would return upon this question he said my wild guess would be by the year 2028 I would go on the side of caution as so many are setting future dates from Mark Biltz, John Hagee to Frank J. Tipler history has a list of people who have done the same it is wrong for Kent to speculate and not stick to scriptures.

As a Ministry we will be watching Kent Hovind and His Ministry.

Miguel Hayworth
Director UK Apologetics Library 2015

 

 

Is Asia Bibi A Biblical Christian or A Roman Catholic ?

Recently it came to my attention that the ecumenical BPCA (British Pakistani Christian Association) reported on the unfortunate and uphorrant and despicable treatment of Aisa Bibi’s offending Muslim’s resulting in her receiving the death penalty regardless of religion or beliefs we should speak out against this.

It is without question that my condemnation is levelled against the Pakistani Government for refusing to release this women to appease Islamic Fanatics who throughout history has carried out past atrocities in blood, Rome has been known for this historically called the Inquisition.

Where should a biblical Christian stand on this and should we consider this person to be a sister in Christ?

In cases like this it is true we cannot judge unbelievers, but we can use the Bible as our authority on matters of truth upon a statement made by Asia Bibi “Christ had died on the cross for sins, then asked them what Mohammad had done for them, to VOM sources. She told them that Jesus is alive, but Mohammad is dead. “Our Christ is the true prophet of God,” she reportedly told them, “and yours is not true.” is it right without examining what exactly Asia does believe, is it right that any evangelical Christian should address this individual as our Sister in Christ identifying this person as part of the body of Christ?

The Bible commands us to be charitable this would mean that it would be right to defend anyone who is suffering in such a manor that we must show mercy and love towards an individual but without compromising our theological position when it comes to the gospel.

What is Asia Bibi’s religious background?

Asia Bibi who’s actual name is Aasiya Noreen is a Devout Roman Catholic Mother who remains in the Roman Catholic system, so what is it that Asia Bibi believes the first point in the statement is that she is repeating what she believes the Vatican teaches as is the case of all Roman Catholics world wide who do believe “Christ had died on the cross for sins“, “Jesus is alive” and “Our Christ is the true prophet of God,” in accordance with Catholic Theology.

The Holy SeeCatechism of the Catholic Church

“He died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures”

CCC 601 The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of “the righteous one, my Servant” as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin.397 Citing a confession of faith that he himself had “received”, St. Paul professes that “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures.”398 In particular Jesus’ redemptive death fulfills Isaiah’s prophecy of the suffering Servant.399 Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God’s suffering Servant.400 After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles.401

A priestly, prophetic, and royal people

CCC 783 Jesus Christ is the one whom the Father anointed with the Holy Spirit and established as priest, prophet, and king. The whole People of God participates in these three offices of Christ and bears the responsibilities for mission and service that flow from them.208

Asia is repeating core doctrines of the Catholic Church, what we should be asking is it right that evangelicals who are identifying Roman Catholics as being saved if the answer is yes, then we should be identifying the church of Rome as being part of the Body of Christ.

It is evangelicals that should be doing two things, praying for this woman’s salvation and sending her a copy of the biblical gospel to help her see the deceit of Catholicism and praying for her release because if she does gets released she will only go back to her Catholic Practices as with every Roman Catholic these are the Rosary, Adoration of the Eucharist, Veneration of the Saints, Sacramentalism, Veneration of Mary, Invocation of Dead Saints, etc.

Rome has always places itself between man and Christ, even grossly perverted the gospel, we have much to be aware it is not proper to let evangelicals believe just because Rome gets somethings correct does not mean that it has not been tainted in some way and for this reason it does not do justice to allow this woman to believe that she represents a biblical Christ.

When it boils down to it the biblical gospel Roman Catholics do not have one, nor do they believe Justification by faith alone, by grace alone and by the blood alone, it is for this reason why it is not safe for any conservative evangelical to make such statements it would be more appropriate to just call Asia and every other Catholic who is suffering in the manor that Asia is a Roman Catholic rather then say she is a Christian.

The Bible does not permit us to have any false sense of spiritual unity, Here are a few Quotes, “This Collection of ‘Conversion’ stories relates to how former Baptists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army Officers, Plymoth Brethren, New Age Believers and Evangelical Anglicans all made their way along the path to rome” these quotes are from a collection of stories from people who have recently converted to Catholosism, “Ann Widdecombe former C of E “Oddly The Concept of Papal Infallibility gave me no trouble at all. Jesus had clearly said to Peter, ‘Whotesoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church…….. And in finding the Catholic Church I have found Peter. I have always had Christ but now I have peter as well……. No one but the pope claims to be the successor to Peter and non but the Catholic Church can trace its Line and its teachings without fail right back to the first apostles…. The Catholic Church alone provides the interpretative authority in its doctrine of papal infallibility…… Truth is absolute by its very nature and Christianity is a vastly more excting religion than most find comftable to contenplate but if truth is absolute it cannotbe diluted……”

Dwight Longenecker former Evangelical “But the Pope calls all Christians to profound conversation of heart in order for ecumenism to take place. In his encyclical Ut Unim Sint, he writes, Their can be no ecumenism worthy of the name without a change of heart personally as well as communally. Each one has to change his way of looking at things.’ He calls Catholics Orthodox and Protestance to move forward into a new re-formation of the church, ‘ The Second Vatican Council, connecting renewal, conversion and reform states that Christ summons the whole church… to a continual reformation.’ …… the Pope calls the whole church to join in a quest for a “new kind of Christianity” in which all Christians can once more unite”

“Can a New ecumenism rise from these ashes for the third millennium ? In a recent article (catholic herald, 19 March 1999) Ian Ker looks to a new dynamic whick is emerging between Evangelicals and Catholics, and Graham Leonard has also noticed a radical shift in Christianity whick presages what many be a new character in the twenty-first century church, Fr Leonnard has spoken of this re-alignment as … between those on the one hand who believe that the Christian Gospel is revealed by God; is to be heard and recieved, and that its purpose is to enable men and women to obey God in love and through them for creation itself to be redeemed. On the other hand are those who believe that it can and should be modified and adapted to the cultural and interllectual attitudes and demands of successive generations and indeed originates in them.”

Now this one is startling.

“While Evangelicalism and Catholisism have been traditional enemies, their are many signs on both sides of the atlantic that a significant shift is happening in both communities, Old boundaries are dissolving, old prejudices dying out and old doctrinal disputes seem increacingly irrelivent.”

“While Scott Hahn, Patrick Madrid, and others work as converts to Catholosism, the Catholic Church is learning from Evangelicals in other ways. In the United State, England and Latin America Catholics are learning to do primery evangelism using an adapted form of the highly successful, Evangelical Anglican “alpha course”.

At the Same time, Evangelical leaders are less shy about using ‘Catholic’ techniques of prayer and worship. In America, Churches where candles and set litergies would – even ten years be unheard of, are clebrating lent and Advent with crosses, candles, ashes and litergies borrowed from the Catholics and Anglicans. As one American Baptist minister observed when told that the ashes he wanted to use for Ash Wednesday were derived from burning the Palm Sunday palms, ‘Whoa! All this Catholic stuff seems to be connected!”

“For Many reasons, the old ethnic and denominational religous barriers will be replaced by a new kind of Christianity. This new expression of the faith will not recognize the traditional national, linguistic and denominational borders.”

As Vatican II really gets into the bloodstream of the Church, the old doctrinal and liturgical missunderstandings will also dissapear at a grass roots level. Catholics will become more evangelical and evangelicals will become more Catholic. Lynn Jolly points out in her essay that Tillich referred to the ‘era’ of reform, rather then the churches of the reformation, and as one Catholic bishop has remarked, ‘The era of reform is over.’

To make a statement that this woman is our sister in Christ or represents the gospel as what is being banded about many sites on the world wide web is fulfilling Rome’s counter reformation agenda as I have seen this widely done time and time again, it is commendable that evangelicals want to support anyone who is suffering in this manor for what ever reason but it is regrettable that they should want to remove any distinction between Roman Catholicism and Evangelicalism for this we must object to any Judgement made by those stating these Roman Catholics are following the Biblical Christ.

It is my belief that instead of enabling Catholics to stay in Catholicism we should rather be going to Catholics with the biblical gospel to try and rescue them from Catholicism and another gospel the Church of Rome represents. 

Miguel Hayworth / August 11th 2015

The Mechanics of a Marriage

When two parts fit together correctly they are said to form a “coupling” or that they are “mated together”.

For this to happen one part must fit correctly into the other.

In the manmade world

In electrical and mechanical trades and manufacturing, each half of a pair of mating connectors or fasteners is conventionally assigned the designation male or female.1

This terminology is taken directly from genitalia and sexual intercourse and when the two corresponding parts are correctly joined together they are said to mate.

ContactSymbolsSchematic symbols for male and female connector pins

Bolt-with-nut

Female nut threaded onto a male bolt

It is physically impossible to marry a male component directly into another male, just as it is also physically impossible to fit a female into another female, as these will not marry or mate together.

 Whenever we make something or build something this is a principle that governs mechanics, and we can see examples of this over and over again.

LEGO-01Toy brick connections are male on top, and female underneath.

MalefemalepipeA male threaded pipe (left), and female threaded elbow

There are other types of connections where both components carry both aspects (male and female) however these are designated as being Genderless, Hermaphroditic or even Androgynous. 2

In Nature

In the natural world the Mating Season, as it is often called, occurs when the males join together with the females in order to engage in the act of procreation. Zoologists describe the actions of animals at this time in terms of a courtship with its ultimate goal of reproduction.

The word “mate” has always been used in relation to the relationships of people. Its origins are found in Middle Low German and Proto-Germanic.   In the 14th Century it meant “one eating at the same table” however from the 1540’s onward it meant “one of a wedded pair, and by the late 16th Century it came to mean “to match, to couple, marry or to join in marriage.” 3

Marriage

The word marriage dates back to the 14th century and means “the action of marrying or entry into wedlock”. It also means the state or condition of being husband and wife”.4

Wedlock refers to the marriage vow originating in the Old English word wedlac. 5

So we can see that in both nature and in mechanics marriage is defined as the physical union of a male and a female. It is physically impossible for a marriage to occur between to components of the same gender because they cannot “mate” or “couple” together.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_connectors_and_fasteners
2. (Ibid)
3. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=mate&searchmode=none
4. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=marriage&searchmode=none
5. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=wedlock&searchmode=none

2015. John Hayworth

Left Behind or Led Astray? [Official Trailer] Review

Please Note: I am not standing for the pre-trib, mid-trib or Post-trib in this article as I do not believe we should be so dogmatic on these subject, I am just touching on the attacks that are leveled against people who do not hold to a post-trib position is part of a Roman Catholic Jesuit, Occultist Conspiracy that is leading many to be part of the great falling away, I am merely disgusted, to say the least, I will say that many people have said that the work that Joe Schimmel Produced on the Satanic Agenda in Hollywood and the music industry to be commendable and the work he did on gay rights.

Joe Schimmel is teaching that eschatology is an issue for the gospel making what they believe essential for salvation to quote them.

Referenced by Joe Schimmel’s website makes mention of the DVD (not the trailer) in “Left Behind or Led Astray,”xv is that the Pretrib teaching provides a platform for a most serious error which undermines the very Gospel itself.

What is it Joe Schimmel is saying is the pre-trib believers falling foul of Romans 1:17 that they are suppressing the truth of the gospel in unrighteousness? if this is the case Joe Schimmel is saying that the wrath of God will come upon all pre-tribbers, GFM are making this into an issue of Salvation meaning not only Joe Schimmel but Jacob Prasch also from Moriel Ministries is committing the sin of schism, the Bible tells us with such people mark those who cause division, Romans 16:17 I beseche you brethre marke them which cause division and geve occasions of evyll contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned: and avoyde them. (translation of William Tyndale New Testament).

In Joe Schimmels recent video I had responded with the comments concerning the pre-trib being a catholic conspiracy in the trailer at 3:35seconds in the video trailer Left behind or Led Astray?, there had been no response as yet to the video, it is a shame and I am sorry to see that the video trailer features Kirk Cameron, we also know that has had involvement with Ray Comfort who is an ecumenist Lordship Salvation promoter and supporters of the liberal and pro-abortionist organisation such as the Salvation Army along with an Ecumenist and compromiser TBN host Kirk Camermon, who had involvement with Glenn Beck who is a Mormon, Kirk has not even spocken against Glenns Mormon Beliefs but received Glenn Becks seal of approval as well as inviting a former evangelical pastor who converted to Roman Catholicism to TBN to make the case for Santa Claus as Cameron promotes his new film “Saving Christmas,” which seeks to convince Christians who choose not to celebrate the holiday, he has even urged Christians to celebrate Halloween, this was no different to Ravi Zachirias who gave endorsement to Nicky Gumbel who said the GOD INSPIRED NICKY GUMBEL IN HIS WORK WITH THE ALPHA COURSE.

This is not surprising, to say the least because there has been some oversight of these issues on the part of Joe Schimmel.

It is sad that Good Fight Ministries is attacking is adding to the unnecessary divisions that are already a foot in the churches, in a second video Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers [Excerpt], at 3:46 secs not all the early church fathers are listed in the film trailer due to its content on one subject, what the film omits is that there are some of early Church Fathers are listed the Great Fathers such as Ambrose (340–397), Jerome (347–420), Augustine (354–430) and Saint Gregory the Great (540–604),  Basil (c. 329–379), Athanasius (c. 296–373), Gregory of Nazianzus (329 – c. 389) and John Chrysostom (347–407)  who were also called the “Eight Doctors of the Church” are regarded as the basis for the what was later to be recognised as the formation of the Roman Catholic Church, it eventually led later to the formation of Vatican 1 after the council of niece, in my reading of the Fathers, it was clear that some of them argued and did not form agreements on issues around the Eucharist, Baptism etc, my personal preference is to go directly to the Bible is self as that is the sole basis and authority of doctrine.

Getting back to the point if the pre-trib position is part of a great Catholic conspiracy to deceive them from the truth and lead them away from the Gospel as Good Fight Ministries film trailer asserts at 3:35seconds, the question must be asked why is it in four places in the Catechism of the Catholic Church does it strongly teach the post trib position, I am not saying post-tribbers are Catholics or agree with Catholicism but to say the pre-tribbers are part of a Jesuit Catholic conspiracy to lead many into the great apostacy of the church, but I have a good reason to believe this is being a bit schismatic and creating unnecessary division.

Who’s leading who astray????

It is interesting that Joe Schimmel is promoting the idea that a Jesuit who is often seen to be representative of RCC had an agenda to push the Pre-trib view when in fact we know that the RCC is teaching a post-trib view.

CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 2642 The Revelation of “what must soon take place,” the Apocalypse, is borne along by the songs of the heavenly liturgy 127 but also by the intercession of the “witnesses” (martyrs).128 The prophets and the saints, all those who were slain on earth for their witness to Jesus, the vast throng of those who, having come through the great tribulation, have gone before us into the Kingdom, all sing the praise and glory of him who sits on the throne, and of the Lamb.129 In communion with them, the Church on earth also sings these songs with faith in the midst of trial. By means of petition and intercession, faith hopes against all hope and gives thanks to the “Father of lights,” from whom “every perfect gift” comes down.130 Thus faith is pure praise.

CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth 575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576

CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, 577 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism. 57

CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 676 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. 579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world. 581

The RCC teaches that Contrary to the rapture doctrine, Christians will not be spared the great tribulation.

The RCC teaches not to believe in this means you follow pseudo-religious teachings.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm

“As Cardinal Ratzinger recently pointed out (in the context of the message of Fátima), we are not at the end of the world. In fact, the Second Coming (understood as the physical return of Christ) cannot occur until the full number of the Gentiles are converted, followed by “all Israel.” Approved Catholic mystics (Venerables, Blessed and Saints, approved apparitions) throw considerable light on this order, by prophesying a minor apostasy and tribulation toward the end of the world, after which will occur the reunion of Christians.

Only later will the entire world fall away from Christ (the great apostasy) and the personal Antichrist arise and the Tribulation of the End occur. Although this is not Catholic doctrine, arising as it does from private revelation, it conforms to what is occurring in our time, especially in light of Our Lady of Fátima’s promise of an “Era of Peace.” This “Triumph of the Immaculate Heart” (other saints have spoken of a social reign of Jesus Christ when Jesus will reign in the hearts of men) would seem to occur prior to the rise of the Antichrist.

The optimism of the Pope for the “New Evangelization” and a “Civilization of Love” in the Third Millennium of Christianity fits here, as well. This would place us, therefore, in the period just before the events spoken of in the Catechism, that is, on the verge of the evangelization of the entire world. Other interpretations are possible, but none seem to fit the facts as well, especially when approved mystics are studied, instead of merely alleged ones.” (ETWN Quote)

 

A question is asked so is the so-called apparition of Our Lady of Fatima called the immaculate heart right that the Church will not survive the tribulation ???????

Is it the case that we can accept some of the teachings in the Catholic Catechism and reject others as some would have us focus on what we agree rather than what we disagree, on the other hand if the Church of Rome is seen to be a false church who is not representative of the bible as most who believe in Sola Scriptura do then we also must with it reject the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church and use the Holy Bible as our sole authority.

It would not be wise to go along with Moriel Ministries, Good Fight Ministries, Way of the Master, Living Waters on what is said here it would be wise not to listen to these points, the same things I would raise with those who are dogmatic in the pre-trib or mid-trib position what is more important is the Gospel regardless of the view.

(What we are saying is generally speaking) “You cannot treat the early fathers on par with the scriptures or the Apostles even if there is a direct link, it maybe the case that some of the teachings may have agreed with scripture it is my position that as long as the scripture is placed above the early fathers we use the bible as a means to discern correctly.”

(To add to this point as it has been misconstrued by Joe Schimmel, the quote above was not specific to Good Fight Ministries)

Miguel Hayworth (2015).

This is not an endorsement of the following link with all things we firmly suggest you use discernment, the argument contrary to the video from the pre-trib side is that the Early Church Fathers did teach in this view before Darby.

http://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/use-of-the-early-church-fathers-and-a-jesuit-conspiracy/

Update to the article August 19th, 2015 I had just seen a response to our article from Joe Schimmel and will to make a few observations on his response but two citations and corrections to the article that I thank Joe for pointing it out publicly,

1) I had given surfactant time for Joe to contact me before writing this article, either he did not get my message or maybe he was too busy to respond, what ever the reason for his public response I wish to address his misconceptions of my write up.

2) I did not suggest that Joe did not hold to Sola Scriptura, the question on that paragraph was put to the reader, to let the reader conclude and so the comment was a generalization, nor was my statement about Kirk false, as they are backed up with evidence.

Joe Schimmel falsely assumed I hold to a pre-trib position, I hold to a Pan-Trib view (this means you can be pre but also be ready for a post, that is my whole view), I clearly stated that  I am not standing for the pre-trib, mid-trib or Post-trib, as I reject the notion that I am dogmatic about the pre-trib view, but I will speak out against any aggressive attacks on the pre-trib believers as I have witnessed and I will speak out against any aggressive attacks on the post-trib believers, because this who debate should not be subject a personal issue.

3) It does not really do any good to say that the pre-tribbers or those who do not hold to post-trib view, for example, the mid trib’s who lean to pre are called heretics and part of the Jesuit Satanic Plot to deceive the body of Christ, the point is you could apply Joe’s Jesuit reasoning and use the same argument to suggest that the Jesuits also influenced the pre-wrath, and mid position also, with the book of revelation the events don’t happen at the same time as the second advent either and have a split between events.

An example of where Pre-trib believers are aggressively attacked was stated by one of Joe’s followers as one of many examples of this whenever you reveal the wicked plans of the counter-reformation led by the evil Jesuits you can expect that there will be people that will fight against you! Thanks for having the courage to go against the grain on this and speak biblical truth

The statements made by Joe and his followers would suggest that their view of the post-trib rapture is essential doctrine, they may reject it but it would not make sense to call Pre-tibs heretical, this is bringing this in line making it matter for the gospel as they state that the pre-tribbers are part of the falling away, they falsely assume that all pre-tribbers all have the same position in believing they place their hope in a rapture, I know of pre and mid-trib believers who have a different view of the blessed hope and this is in the Gospel, the death, blood and resurrection of Christ and his offer of redemption, my critique against the American Christian Counterpart whether they are pre, mid or post, it is believed by some that the events in the USA concerning biblical prophecy are captivated to the USA and they have not considered Israel, there has been many eschatological arguments where as some believe that the USA is the center of the universe when it comes to the end time’s and conveniently wrap the events conveniently to suit their theological position in relation to other countries fighting ISIS, Israel is not mentioned, in the USA around these teachers have their own speculations about a theory when Biblically speaking the events in the Bible are tied to Israel then the rest of the world.

The hope we should have should be in Christ and not in escapism “the rapture”, the issue of the rapture is a side issue and should be a none issue, the blessed hope is not worrying about looking for the anti-christ and expecting a rapture after the last part of the three and a half years after the temple is built but looking to Jesus rather they preface because it does not fit their theological argument they come against you.

What these people like the commenters of GFM’s Facebook are essentially doing rather than strengthening a person’s faith they are putting people who do not hold to the same eschatology this places into question their salvation by saying that they eventually are leading many away from the gospel this is what is means to be part of the great apostasy simply means to reject the gospel, something is a miss, if they look closely they would find it was not the view of eschatology that is leading many into a false gospel but the new ecumenism, transformational theology, spiral dynamics, replacement theology and a whole host of others that shows there is already a great apostasy in the churches streams of denominations this includes the contemporary Christian music scene and modern worship songs, even the not so obvious compromises in the GFM own camp.

My article was not a personal attack on Joe or his ministry, it is commendable that Joe is doing what most should be doing in preaching the gospel and reaching the lost, I wish many more did this then get into nonsensical and unnecessary debates, the matter I wish to point out is that his trailer was very schismatic over a trivial issue and does not deal with essential points that were raised, Joe’s response to me shows that he was not willing to acknowledge that the RCC hold to a Post Trib position, nor does he stress that Eschatology is not an essential teaching that we should not be devising over as this was not the impression from his trailer, it gives the listener the subtle impression that all pre-tribbers are part of the apostate church and does not take into account that should be widely mentioned and stressed but does not want correction on an issue that should not cause division. In his focus on that issue, he does not think involvement with ecumenists was important and so he has kept this poeple on his trailer this had led me to have a genuine cause for concern, these concerns have not been addressed but ignored.

No where has my article at one point mentioned the DVD as it had not been released at the time I wrote about the video on youtube posted by GFM, the word video referred to the video trailer Joe Schimmel was rather erroneous in his assumption of my critique nor did I state that  Kirk Cameron appeared on the DVD hence the title [Official Trailer] Review.

Joe did not answer the points nor did he respond to the question as to why does the CCC teach a post trib is the pre-trib was a Catholic conspiracy that led Darby’s teaching on the subject supposedly?

Nor does it answer the point that the early church fathers did not agree on the issue, and it would appear that Joe is choosing the early church fathers that agree with his position.

John Darby has been incorrectly credited with “inventing” the Rapture I do not believe Joe is accurate on Darby.

For the reader to this post, you may want to consider other factors that Joe Schimmel did not consider the list of the early church fathers below.

Written on August 2, 2013, By (Please note this is not an endorsement)

http://beginningandend.com/what-did-ancient-church-fathers-believe-about-the-rapture/

All over the internet, there are many articles and videos that claim that the Rapture doctrine was “invented” in 1830 by a man named John Darby. The following is an excerpt that summarizes this theory:

The Rapture doctrine, which was the invention of the Plymouth Brethren led by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), has today been adopted by most Baptist, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, and a variety of other fundamentalist sects. The idea that Jesus Christ will return for His true Church just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation in a secret gathering or “catching away” was an important part of Darby’s teaching. The movement in which this teaching began originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth Brethren. By 1860 the “rapture” had made its way to the United States.

Today, prophecy pundits and “end-time” revivalists preach the Rapture as if it were established dogma from the time of Christ until the present. The truth is that the first historical reference to the Rapture doctrine comes from the Plymouth Brethren. Not only is the Rapture not found in the teachings of the Church, but even “end-time” heretics throughout the centuries never dreamed of proposing such a novel idea. For example, the 4th century Montanists, who preached both pre-millennialism and that they knew when Christ would return, never ventured so far as to create another 2nd coming of the Lord in a secret rapture.

In all the writings of the Scriptures, the Early Fathers, and the Ecumenical Councils, there is no mention of two 2nd comings of Christ.” (source) [Emphasis added].

 

In short, the objection is that rather than being a real part of the Bible, the entire idea of a pre-Great Tribulational Rapture was just an invention by Darby and “not even heretics” ever used it.  This is very strong language, but is it true? Were there no ancient Christian writings about the church being Raptured before Great Tribulation? An examination of early church writings shows that this charge is false, and some church fathers indeed wrote about the Rapture.

Irenaeus

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.

On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this period that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place before the end times Great Tribulation.

Cyprian
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the Church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

Again we see a use of language commonly found about the Rapture as Cyprian describes the judgments of the end times as “imminent.” And he makes his belief on the timing of the Rapture when he wrote that Christians will have an “early departure” and be “delivered” from the devastating global judgments that come during the Day of The Lord.
In line with the Apostle Paul, who wrote that “God has not appointed us to wrath, but salvation..” Cyprian expressed joy and encourages the believing reader to rejoice that the Church will be “taken away” before the disastrous Great Tribulation. Just as The Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 used the same language of one “taken away” and the other “left.” Additionally, Cyprian references the mansions which The Lord Jesus Christ promises to come back and take His believers to in John 14.

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” – John 14:1-3.

As Beginning and End detailed in our article “The Red Moon Rapture – The Biblical Timing of The Rapture”, in both the Matthew 24 passages (“one taken, the other left”) and in John 14 (“..receive you unto myself..”) the Greek work paralambanō is used for taken and receive. The meaning of that word is “join to one’s self” indicating that Jesus is coming to unify fully with His church – which takes place at the Rapture.  Clearly Cyprian believed and taught that the Rapture takes place before the Great Tribulation.

Ephraim The Syrian

Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. The book Pseudo-Ephraim was one of his still existing works. It was called “Pseudo” because of a later dispute over authorship. However the book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling:

In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote:

“We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time.

Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!”

With a sense of urgency and strong warning, Ephraim writes that the end times are upon this world and could start at any moment. This text very clearly states the saints and elect of God, all born again believers in The Lord Jesus Christ, will be “taken to the Lord” before the Great Tribulation. Ephraim also identifies the Old Testament “Day of The Lord” and the end times Great Tribulation as the same event (in line with the teachings of the Beginning and End Rapture Series). Ephraim quotes Amos 5:18 which says: “Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! To what end is it for you? The day of the LORD is darkness and not light.”

The point he makes is that a Christian should know the Day of The Lord is coming. In the first part of the passage Ephraim notes that:
“We ought to understand thoroughly, therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated)” And not only that but that true Christians will be taken away before it starts.
Here he is describing the first 3 of the first four seals of Revelation 6 – wars, famines, and plagues. These are the same end times signs Jesus Christ describes in Matthew 24:

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. – Matthew 24:3-8.

Jesus describes these events as “the beginning of sorrows.” He also says that when these things come to pass “the end is not yet.” Ephraim’s writing agrees with this interpretation as he says those same events have been “fulfilled (consummated)” in his day, but it was still not the actual Great Tribulation. This also falls in line with Beginning and End’s Rapture series as explained in our article Who Are The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse? (The first four seals of Revelation 6 were opened at the time Jesus Christ ascended to Heaven. And the rapture itself does not occur until the opening of the 6th Seal.)

Ephraim in very strong language warns the reader not to be consumed with the cares of the world because the world in its current form, is coming to an end. As the Second Advent or Coming of The Lord Jesus Christ grows near, believers are to look to Heaven and set their hearts on pleasing God. It is evident that Ephraim distinguishes the Second Coming of Christ from the rapture, placing the Rapture before the Great Tribulation to come.

The Early Church Believed In The Rapture

What Did Ancient Church Fathers Believe About The Rapture?

Although there are not a great number of writings on the end times from the early centuries of the church, there is no question that there was a belief in the Rapture among the church fathers, and they taught it with strong language and scriptural support. Regarding the timing of the Rapture, the early church fathers placed it before the end times Day of The Lord/Great Tribulation. The writings of early saints in the church are not Scripture and should not be treated on the same level of the Bible. These writings also do not “prove” that the pre-Great Tribulation Rapture or the Beginning and End Rapture Series are correct. Only rightly divided Scripture from the Bible can determine if a specific belief is accurate or in error.  But the writings of church fathers can serve as useful commentaries (just as we use Bible commentaries today in our studies) and indeed prove that the Rapture doctrine existed well before John Darby and had been a part of Christian belief since the earliest days of the Apostles.

(End)

Miguel Hayworth

RCCG Royal Christian Centre Stockport Examined.

Rccg.gif
Logo source wikipedia.

I was approached recently by an individual claiming  who originated from Nigeria to be from a Church that calls itself the RCCG in Stockport not far from Manchester, UK.

RCCG Royal Christian Centre,
Stockport
112 Shaw Heath Road
Sk2 6QS
Manchester

The leaflet I was handed a tract like the ones I was given when I was in London, this tract did contain a distorted view of the gospel, in the tract Salvation is dependent on a work you are expected to do and your effort in repeating a prayer, the tract omits and does not consider but omits Hebrews chapter’s 9 & 10 and does not explain what it is we are to repent from, as it gives no clear definition as to what sin is, to include the sinners prayer into this would mean that the effort is based on the act of prayer rather than faith that leads to repentance and that it states that repentance is necessary for salvation, it does not say Faith Alone and Repentance are necessary for salvation and that repentance means a change of mind that will lead to the action of turning away from the sins we had committed.

When researching this Church there are wider and dangerous practices we must consider especially from groups like the RCCG, when challenging members they will not give straight answers and most of the time they will ever be dishonest or show ignorance with an attitude to accept anything and everything that their leaders do  must be accepted without question.

(1) Recently it was brought to my attention that the RCCG had a big conference called the Festival of Life foundedHome by Pastor Enoch A Adeboye, in 1986 it was claimed Enoch A Adeboye asked God for his birthday gift this gift was that he wanted God to give him miracles for each member of RCCG Church, by divine revelation God personally instructed.

In 1986, the General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian church of God, Pastor Enoch A Adeboye, asked for a birthday gift from God and requested for a miracle for each member of the church. God then instructed him to invite everyone to a special meeting called the “Holy Ghost Service”. This subsequently birthed the beginning of monhttp://ukapologeticslibrary.net/wp-admin/post.php?post=647&action=editthly Holy Ghost Nights in Lagos, Nigeria.

We see the fruit of these leaders in the RCCG who are leading many astray and many believe them when we have leaders influencing many who are being duped and deluded into accepting that David Cameron is a Christian this puts into question not only the integrity but also there is very little evidence that these people are truly men of God.

Philippians 3:2  Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

These Scriptures are very relevant as this is a perfect description of who runs the RCCG please consider watching this video.

The RCCG has many partners this has included Ecumenical and Roman Catholic Groups through More than Gold during the 2012 Olympics this issue is historical, Churches Together in Britain and Ireland, Global Connections, The Evangelical Alliance, CMMW Partnership in Mission Conference 2014.

A question should be asked, what happened in the 1970’s at the formation of the ACEA and its push towards Ecumenical Unity ?

Rev Israel Oluwole Olofinjana who is part of an ecumenical group wrote:

Since around the 1970s till the present, there have been various organisations or agencies working towards partnership between black and white Churches. The first of such was the founding of the Zebra Project in 1975 by Paul Chairman, a Methodist minister. This project functioned till around the 1990s when it was disbanded. The brilliance of the Zebra Project before its demise was the fact that it created platforms through meetings and conferences for black and white Church leaders to meet. Working in connection with the Zebra Project and also with the British Council of Churches (now Churches Together in Britain and Ireland) was the Conference for Christian Partnership (CCP) which was established in the 1980s. CCP’s work created a meeting place for black and white Christian leaders as well as encouraging the sharing of buildings between black and white Churches. The 1980s also witnessed the formation of Center for black and white Christian partnership in Birmingham (now part of Queens Foundation for Ecumenical Theological Education). The first director was the late Bishop Patrick Kalilombe — a Roman Catholic from Malawi.

Perhaps one of the most significant developments in the 1980s relating to the working together of black and white Churches was the formation of the West Indian Evangelical Alliance (WIEA) in 1984. Through the visionary instrument of the late Guyanese missionary to Britain, Philip Mohabir and others such as Clive Calver, the then general director of the Evangelical Alliance and Dave Tomlinson, one of the key House Church leaders in the 1980s, WIEA was initiated to establish links between black and white Churches. One of the visions that led to the establishment of WIEA was the recognition that British Evangelicalism through the House Churches was growing at a time when the Black Majority Churches were also experiencing growth, but they were not aware of each other or working together therefore WIEA was established to seek to bridge the gap. WIEA worked with the Evangelical Alliance in doing this and to a certain extent there were partnerships that began to emerge between black and white church leaders. WIEA changed its name in 1989 to Afro-Caribbean Evangelical Alliance and finally in 1991 it changed its name to the African and Caribbean Evangelical Alliance (ACEA) to recognise the growing African Churches. ACEA was not only significant in building bridges  between black and white Churches working together, but was also important in  fostering relationships between the Caribbean and African Churches.

It was a shame that after about 28 years due to lack of finances and other factors, ACEA disbanded. For many practitioners and commentators, the question has always been what comes next after ACEA? Part of this question has also been what organisation or agency will continue the work of unity among black and white Churches? Obviously there is the work of Churches Together in Britain and Ireland (CTBI) but some evangelical Churches are not comfortable with some of the Church membership of CTBI therefore they might not sign up to be a part of it. Two organisations seem to have filled the gap for some of these evangelical Churches and these are, the Street Pastors initiative and Global Day of Prayer Movement. Both started in the year 2000s and have managed to attract black and white Churches working together. The reason for their success in achieving this unity in my opinion has been twofold, firstly, the cross-cultural skills of  the people who lead this initiatives. Both Rev Les Isaac and Dr Jonathan Oloyede are excellent leaders who are well equipped in bringing people of diverse cultures together. Secondly, is the fact that these initiatives are not operating as institutional ecumenism but are rather achieving ecumenism through mission. This makes them very appealing to any Christian who wants to get involved in God’s mission.

It seems to me that this sort of missional ecumenism is the way forward for black and white Church partnership and this is increasing growing at grass root level through other mission initiatives such as foodbanks, school pastors and so on.  While missional ecumenism is definitely important, I think there is still the need for ongoing conversations between different denominations or in this case black and white Church leaders. One body that seems to be achieving the latter point and that have continued from where ACEA left off is the One People Commission of the Evangelical Alliance. The ecumenical credentials of its director, Rev Yemi Adedeji is that he is an ordained Anglican minister as well as an ordained African Pentecostal pastor (working within the Redeemed Christian Church of God). The vision of the One People Commission is to see the UK Church in all its vibrant ethnic diversity united as one and this is reflected in the Church leaders involved:

  • Rev Kingsley Appaigyei, senior pastor of Trinity Baptist Church
  • Bishop Eric Brown, administrative Bishop of the New Testament Church of God
  • Bishop John Francis, founder and senior pastor of Ruach ministries
  • Rev John Glass, general superintendent of Elim Pentecostal Church
  • Pastor Argu Irukwe, Chairman of the RCCG UK and senior pastor of Jesus House
  • Dr Tani Omideyi, senior minister of Love and Joy ministries in Liverpool
  • Rev Siew Huat Ong, senior pastor of the Chinese Church in London
  • Manoj Raithatha, national co-ordinator of South Asian Forum
  • Rev Mike Talbot, vicar of Emmanuel Church Northwood

Other Church leaders who have been part of this journey includes Dr Tayo Adeyemi, senior pastor of New Wine Church in Woolwich, Jonathan Edwards, General Secretary of the Baptist Union of Great Britain (BUGB), Rev Dr Paul Jinadu, General Overseer of New Covenant Church, Rev Dr Hugh Osgood, senior pastor of Corner Stone Christian Centre, Roger Forster, founder of Icthus Christian Fellowship, Bishop Wayne Malcolm, senior pastor Christian Life City, David Shosanya, regional minister of London Baptist Association (LBA), Rev John Partinghton, national leader Assemblies of God Britain and a host others. The work of One People Commission is a welcome idea and one hopes that it will be used to diversify the structures and governance of the Evangelical Alliance.

Source: https://israelolofinjana.wordpress.com/2012/12/07/church-unity-what-happened-after-acea/

 

It is evident that members and followers of the credulous RCCG members are being deceived, duped and blindly led astray by its leaders who are masquerading as men of God, but are spouting doctrines of devils, what are the issues that surround the RCCG.

Here are some of the false teachings used as examples why this so-called man of God is dangerous to his followers.

I would also encourage the readers to look at the doctrinal statement of the RCCG. http://rccg.org/about/our-beliefs

1) Any Christian who receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit must speak in tongues – Acts 2:4; Acts 10:34-36; Acts 19:2-6.

No where are we told in the scriptures that those who received the holy spirit must speak in tongues the bible in the book of acts is misrepresented by this explanation, no where in the Bible are we told that everyone must speak in tongues in the book of Acts the scriptures used refer to own languages and not spirtual tongues for example the RCCG quotes Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In vs 8 it explains what it is ment by other tongues, in Acts 4:8-11 tells us they spoke in the common tongue from different countries these are listed, Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Crete and Arabians, they were amazed because they did not learn the languages of the people who were gathered around at that time were foreigners.

Acts 10:34-36 cannot be used to warrant the necessity of spiritual tongues nor can Acts 19:2-6 mean that this should apply to every one who is baptised in the Holy Spirit if we read the context of Acts 19 spake with tongues does not refer to spiritual tongues but rather God putting his word in them that they spoke in a common language because we read they prophesied to the jews in the synagogues it was then later in vs 10 we see them going to both jews and gentiles it is also one thing I would like to note that the gentiles who they went to may have not had the ability to speak hebrew but the tongue that was given was so that the spiritual gift gave them the ability to speak a language they have not studied; what the RCCG does not care to say is that the gift of tongues is just one of the nineteen gifts of the Spirit nor does the Bible that teach tongues is the evidence for salvation, the RCCG is twisting scripture on this point.

Please read the following if you want a detailed study on the subject.

http://www.letusreason.org/pent12.htm

The RCCG teaches that Satan is the cause of all sickness, physical healing is promised in the atonement, and “touch not the Lord’s anointed”, none of this can be backed up by scripture.

Sickness is caused because of the fall of man. The force behind this is Satan – Job 2:1-9; Luke 13:15; Acts 10:3. But JESUS came to destroy the works of the devil – I John 3:8. Christ purchased our soul from the curse of sin. He bore our infirmities and carried our sorrow – Matt. 8:15-17. By His stripes we are healed. Is 53:4-5; Gal. 3:13; I Peter 2:24. Healing without medicine is of the Gospel – Matt. 9:35; Mark 6:10-18. We read that the twelve Apostles and the seventy disciples combined healing with their Ministry of the Gospel – Luke 9:1-2; Luke 10:1-9. The Lord commanded us to go into the world, just to teach the nations alone, but that we should also heal the sick – Matt. 28:19-20; Mark 10:1, Mark 16:15-18.

We could obtain our healing in these four ways: 1. By individual prayer – John 14:13-14 2. By two people (or a group of people) who have agreed to pray by faith – Matt. 18:19-20. 3. By the laying of hands on the head – Mark 16:18; Acts 9:18; Acts 28:8. 4. By the Ministry of the Elders, anointing the sick with prayer of faith – James 5:14-15 Special Notice – Before we can work by healing without medicine, we would have sanctified our life to the doing of the Law – Rom. 6:13, 19; Rom. 12:1; Matt. 16:24; II Cor. 8:5, 15. Many miracles were performed by the Apostles – Acts 9:33-42; Acts 19:11-12; Acts 28:8-9.

quoted from http://rccg.org/about/our-beliefs

Is this true?

What the RCCG is doing is teaching word faith doctrine.

Not all sicknesses come from Satan, nor are they all contrary to the will of God. If this were so there would be no divine chastisement for God’s children, we are told he chastens those he loves. We need to discern, as Scripture states in Hebrews, that whom God loves He chastens. It is God who either directly or indirectly allows punishment, sickness and even death for the believer. We cannot simplify good and evil it to “the Devil only does bad and God only does good.” The reason God afflicts somebody is not for evil, because His intention and goal is for good. The Devil afflicts someone to destroy them, but God allows it in order to work good in their life. God is in control of the believer’s circumstances and life. Duet. 32:39 “Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Exod.15:26; Deut.7:15, 28:60, 30:19-20, 32:45 all teach that God can afflict the people for chastisement, even though he does not want to.

In Luke 1:20 Zacharias is struck dumb (mute). In Acts 5 both Ananias and Sapphira were judged by God for lying to the Holy Spirit, it wasn’t Satan who killed them. In Psalm 119:67 David says, “Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep they word.” Verse 75 says, “In your faithfulness you have afflicted me.” David attributed his affliction to God’s hand, not the Devil’s. Does the Devil afflict? He certainly does, but he can’t afflict the saints without the Lord’s permission. God is in control of the believer’s life. Jesus has the keys of death and hell, not the Devil. We see in the New Testament taking communion without reflecting on the Lord’s body have caused many to be weak , sick and some have even to die (1 Cor.11:29-30).

God’s ability to heal extends to all of us. The issue isn’t “does God heal today” but will He heal, and how and when. No true believer is without the possibility of divine healing. One way which the promise of healing is found in the atonement is in James 5:14,15 ( Psalm 31:10). It is when an illness is a direct result of someone’s unconfessed sin. James writes when that sin is confessed and repented of healing comes as a result through the local church elders. (Not all sickness is direct from sin but because of sins effect on the world we live in).

Is there healing in the atonement. Yes, but it is not a standard promised to all believers at the present time. To say this is in my opinion an injustice. Nowhere will you find that he died to heal us in the body, but to set us free from the domination of sin.

Rom. 6:6-7: “knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin.”

Rom 7:17: “But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.” We still have sin in us and this is the reason we die. It also is the reason we can get sick

Heb. 9:26: “But now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.” Jesus purpose was to deal with sin so that we will not be punished for it but we still have sin. This will not be dealt with until we are glorified as Paul writes the last enemy to be conquered is death, which is a result of sin.

Heb 10:6 “In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you had no pleasure. All the sacrifices were about sin, not for physical healings.”

What the faith teachers do is apply physical blessings pertaining to the time of the Millennium for us today, which can be summed up as an over realized eschatology. Our complete physical healing will come in the resurrection when our corruptible bodies will become incorruptible and immortal bringing us into total health. Jesus’ life ministry was a foretaste of the future Millennium when he will again be here physically on earth to heal all and rule.

Today God does heal in answer to prayer according to His sovereign will , but He is not obligated to heal by any promise in Scripture. Physical healing in this life is not guaranteed by Christ’s death, but is a provision. There is no promise in the New Testament like “whosoever believes will be healed.” Whenever God heals our body today it’s by intervention of his mercy not by an obligation of a promise.

In Phil. 2:25-27: Epaphroditus was sick almost to death, Paul did not recommend to use any Scripture by faith. Certainly we can assume he prayed for his fellow worker in the Gospel. Some use this and other Scriptures to say the gift of healing faded away. I don’t think that is the case. Look at what Paul states in v.27 “But God had mercy on him.” It is by God’s mercy that He heals, it was not in the hand of the apostles to do anything they so desired unless it was Gods will. Neither can we today.

Paul personally had his own struggle 2 Corinthians 12:1-10: “Paul requested healing from the Lord three times. And three times he got an answer back: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Translation: God said no to Paul’s request for healing. He didn’t confess by his stripes I’m healed and continue in faith for it. Why? Because Paul was mature enough to accept the answer God gave. And we should be also.

For further study on this please goto

http://www.letusreason.org/wf10.htm

The RCCG also promotes Rick Warren who is a proven deceiver.

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It maybe about time that Rick Warren comes out of the closet for his support for gay rights campaigner such as that Rick Warren shown his support for homosexuality and Gay Marriage but had lied about his support against Gay Marriage interesting when even the world who hates the Bible and God would catch Rick Warren out for being a liar and a hypocrite.

    

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/11/28/1250921/rick-warren-i-regret-coming-out-in-support-of-californias-anti-gay-marriage-proposition/

On Wednesday, conservative Evangelical Pastor Rick Warren expressed regret for instructing his congregation to support Proposition 8, California’s constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. During an interview with Huff Post Live’s Marc Lamont Hill, Warren attempted to downplay his endorsement of the provision, claiming that he intended to communicate his private support to church members and was not trying to take a “public” position on the issue. Warren expressed regret for ever backing the measure:

WARREN:  I never made a single statement on Prop 8 until the week before. In my own church, some members say, “Where do we stand on this?” I released a video to my own members. It was posted all over like it was an advertisement. […]

HILL: When you have a church of 20,000 people and you have a book that 32 million people have read and that 60 million people have accessed, to say, “I was just giving a message”—

WARREN: You’re exactly right, Marc, and I learned a lesson from that. What I learned from that is that anything I say privately is now public. And I actually learned from that mistake… Everyone took that to mean I was pontificating to the whole world.

A recent article criticised for making joke about kissing Elton John.

Warren-John

Elton John and Drag Queen RUPAUL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuPaul

elton


http://www.christiantoday.com/article/rick.warren.criticised.for.making.joke.about.kissing.elton.john/53843.htm

Reuters:

Rick Warren and Elton John joked together before the Senate appropriations subcommittee on funding global health initiatives

Megachurch pastor Rick Warren and gay singer Elton John have formed an unlikely alliance in order to support AIDS relief before Congress, and urged the government not to cut down on AIDS funding.

“Everybody has a different role to play and the Church’s role is not government, and the government’s role is not Church. But on health issues, and on education issues and on development issues, you can team tackle,” Warren said.

The two made such a great team taking on global health issues that they smiled, laughed, and held hands as a show of unity, and later Warren reportedly joked about kissing John which he said would probably be “the kiss heard around the world.”

This really shows the fruit of Rick Warrens ministry after a long time of leading so many astray it is not surprising why the RCCG takes the position it does this is a case of the blind leading the blind.

Prayer that leads to apostacy.

[RCCG prayer launch for Hope 2014] 40,000 gather to pray for Hope 2014 was the report for the prayer launch, in my experience of witnessing the events in the past the numbers were far less than what was reported, these figures tend to be estimates and for this reason cannot be trusted as to how many actually attend these meetings much of it includes deceit lies, hypocrisy and scandals especial of who is being promoted here.

The following stated ‘We should never be guilty of being without hope. We have been entrusted with the greatest hope of all!’ in one sence is true but this has a double meaning what they mean by this is tide into the message rooted in the social gospel, it is about being part of Hope Together for the purpose of creating false ecumenical alliances, this was in conjunction with a 12-hour night of prayer at the launch of HOPE’s season of prayer in London’s Excel Centre” this was led by Pastor Agu Irukwu from the “Redeemed Christian Church of God“, Pastor Agu Irukwu is also the pastor of Jesus House who has prayed alongside Roman Catholic Priests during the global day of prayer jesus house events, he says “The united prayer of the saints changes the destiny of a nation. As Senior Pastor of Jesus House, we stand shoulder to shoulder with the 24 hour prayer for London and the movement for unity organised by GDOP, London.

This is far from the truth a United Prayer with those who commit idolatry and propagate another gospel does change the destiny of a nation that leads many away from the gospel that saves, this states the Bishop launched HOPE’s season of prayer asking God to transform lives and communities during HOPE 2014. the teaching of transforming lives and communities is simply through social work what is ment by transformations simply represents a fusion of evangelicalism, Pentecostalism, and ecumenism that started becoming prominent in the early 21st century.

This is exactly what Ed Silverso did when he came to London

The Article below explains exactly what is being promoted through the prayer events.

The Global Transformation of Redeeming Cultures – Mike Openhiemer

The basis of the gospel message is about sin and man being reconciled to God through a savior that came through the Jewish people. Our commission by Jesus is to preach the gospel whenever we can to all people…Today we have various new concepts that neglect this and instead want to transform the culture like Ed Silvoso or the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) is promoting.

“A Church Growth Expert’s Observation s Observation” “We have attempted to transform our cities for years without success. I now believe the reason is because pastors and church leaders do not have the authority to do so. That authority lies within those leaders in the marketplace. When we recognize and affirm the apostles in the marketplace we will begin to see the transformation of cities.”

((quote of Peter Wagner,(Source: International coalition of workplace ministries)

All we have heard for years is that it is working! Now they blame it being unsuccessful because our leadership does not have the authority. This is the mixture of oil and water. Once again the trail leads back to them, without their new apostolic leadership the cities will not be transformed.

Silvoso is on a mission which takes him to different continents with the method of market transformation.

Within the new evangelistic package of making marketplace pastors, he is training people to move from the concept of pastoring the Local Church to pastoring a city. There is a clear theme of Dominionism running through this program, with kingdom authority and the use of “territorial spiritual warfare” employed. By uniting together using the various methods he presents Satan can be bound and the Christian forces triumph.

Silvosos’ paradigm is no different from many others that have come into the church before, it’s basically “rethinking everything into a new strategy.” Using the magic word of “transformation’ (a word originally found in theosophy of the New Age Movement) it has found itself as one of the many new platforms for “mission” strategies” now being employed by the New Apostolic Reformation.

Silvoso says: “Government and politics are areas where we are more reluctant to believe that transformation can really happen.”

Ed Silvoso’s books – Anointed For Business and Women: God’s Secret Weapon.

On November 29, two mayors and one congresswoman in three cities expressed before a crowd of 300 believers their appreciation for what our prayers did for their localities and for them personally. I firmly believe as we persevere in applying the principles outlined in Luke 10 to the marketplace (government, business and education) we will see the Philippines transformed in our lifetime.”

What principle? This was training for his disciples in Israel which occurred before Israel rejected him as their Messiah, it was never applied for the church in the book of Acts or taught in the epistles. But this is the main Scripture for their program to influence the business and government.

“In 1990 we prayed for young people to be protected as they ventured into the world to develop a career… Now we commission them to become politicians, CEOs, scientists and broadcasters, and the first fruits are evident. When asked about the future, a teenager stated confidently, “I will be the President of Argentina.” Another said, “I will change the economy of the nation to make it more fair.”

How is your spiritual stock today? Reap eternal dividends by taking the power and presence of God to the marketplace…

According to Romans 8:19 the entire creation is eagerly awaiting the manifestation of the children

of God. They are waiting for us and they want to know who we are. It is about time that we come out of our spiritual closet. The next time you go to work, declare “The Kingdom of God has arrived and the gates of Hades shall not prevail,” and begin to pray for and minister to everyone in your circle of influence until the place experiences transformation” (2004 Year-end Report Harvest Evangelism Ed & Ruth Silvoso).

Rom.8:19 is often used this way by those who hold to the Latter Rain teaching. But Silvoso takes this into a further misinterpretation, as if we reveal ourselves. But all one needs to do is read further for the Bible interpretation on this passage- it’s about the resurrection when we will be changed to immortality, not something we can do today, on your own.

Vv. 23-24: “Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?”

The gates shall not prevail against the church (Mt.16:18)- NOT the kingdom of God in the workplace. Yet he teaches that we are to take the Kingdom of God (the church?) to the gates of Hell (whatever that means). Silvoso like so many others who espouse Latter Rain teaching can’t seem to leave the Scripture in its context and change its meaning to fit their own personal made up doctrine to influence the masses. Its business as usual.

The error of the Latter Rain clearly being promoted by Silvoso is a figment of his own imaginary agenda of changing the landscape with his workplace program – starting with pastors in the workplaces of the communities. Rom. 8:19: “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.” When do the sons get revealed? When Jesus comes back not before, so how can this mean we subject the creation by our authority as Silvoso claims. What we are seeing is a new spiritual militant movement that wants to use their supposed kingdom authority on this earth before the King actually arrives.

Not everyone is involved in the Latter Rain belief of putting the culture under the authority of the church. Chuck Colson holds to a modified teaching of Reconstructionism and modern day dominionism to reform the culture, by taking the culture back: “Redeeming the culture is the never ending mission of the church (Chuck Colson Breakpoint Jan.2, 05, KLHT)’

“I was deepening my understanding of what we call the cultural commission, the command to the Church to take dominion and bring righteousness to our culture”

(Chuck Colson, God’s Inseparable Commissions, Prison Fellowship, 01/05/2005, http://www.pfm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=PFM_Site&temnlate=/CM/
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“Today-some 30 years into my ministry-I have come to believe passionately that all Christians need to take their faith out of the pews and into the trenches. We’ve got to be faithful to the cultural commission to have dominion, to work for Christian values to arrest our worldview slide” (Chuck Colson, Prison Ministry and Worldview: A Match Made in Heaven, Prison Fellowship, 08/29/2004,
http://www.pfm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=PFM_Site&template=/CM/HTML
Display.cfm&ContentlD=1 2515)

One of Colson’s ministries objective is to institute Christian laws into our government to shape America into a godly nation. But you can’t find these ideas of culture, or society in the Bible. In fact if one looks at how the early church handled their relationship with Rome it is nothing like what is being promoted today.

Jesus gave the great commission as His last words to the Church. He expects us to be doing this when He returns for the Church, not something else. Nowhere does the Bible teach the church is sent to reform or redeem the culture or make the world a better place for mankind. Why? Because that is what HE WILL DO when He returns. Why? Because He is the “only one” with the ability to do it correctly. Until then we have a mandate of preaching the gospel, and discipleship. Teaching people what He taught, not something he did not teach.

One of the new strategies to evangelize the nations, and crush Satan under your feet (referring to Rom. 16:20) is called Redeeming cultures. It goes by a number of different titles First Nations cultural evangelism cultural identification indigenous people movement-cultural redemption etc.

The belief that in every culture-God has left treasures and worthy traditions within the indigenous cultures to be used. We are told that redeeming the cultures reestablished people’s identity of who they are as nations and who God created them to be.

 Terry Leblanc: referring to David Garrett from Scripture and Songs said it this way:

“God is now calling forth from among the indigenous communities of the world that good deposit which He has made in them of their cultures, their languages, their musical expressions and all that sort of thing … as an expression of praise and worship unto Himself.” (Word to the World – host Danny Lehmann, KLHT, 2001)

To say God created these cultures, influenced them or deposited anything in them is the same as saying that these other religions had truth from God and worshipped Him (or her, or it) correctly.

The cultural redemption movement began mainly through Don Richardson books “The Peace Child” and “Eternity in Their Hearts” who proposed using redemptive analogies that are already found in cultures. Some of the ideas he presented were valid, some were not. Certainly there is advantage to indigenous people carrying the gospel to their own people but there is a disadvantage when one tries to make a connection to them by their own religion that is clearly not there in the first place. And instead of giving them the straightforward gospel it becomes a blend of their religion and the Bible to appease both parties. In the end the Christian gospel will be covered up with cultural traditions. The reason is because you cannot make a mixture like this have the gospel uncorrupted.

Is it appropriate to bring to people Jesus Christ through their own culture, and then leave them to worship God in their own cultures way. Did the apostles do this? The answer is No, but that is what is taking place today.

Richard Twiss one of the main promoters of “cultural redemption” states:

“…We’re introducing native leaders and native ministry organizations to the greater body of Christ by partnering with people like Don Richardson, John Dawson and George Otis …” (Interview- Richard Twiss, Word to the World with host Danny Lehmann, KLHT, 2001, show #547) this should settle any questions on whom these people are learning from and associating with. The majority are associates of YWAM and Dawson and Otis are involved in the NAR program of Transformation (i.e George Otis produced 2 films on global Transformation by spiritual warfare that are exaggerated and filled with proven inaccuracies. Otis jr. is part of Peter Wagners false apostolic reformation that is trying to change the way churches do things.)

“As disciples of Jesus Christ we are also called to redeem our culture as we grow in God” (YWAM DTS, Island Breeze, http://www.islandbreeze.com.au/training.htm)

Are we called to do this? If one thinks this is evangelism they a very much mistaken, this is far different from the evangelism done from the first century on down to our day.

One of the main promoters of this evangelism through YWAM is Daniel Kikawa who took Richardsons concepts to their extreme. He is telling the Church “The Creator God of the Bible is not a foreign God. He loves indigenous people and has been a part of their history and culture from the beginning.

Leon Siu:  “The misconceptions that, as was expressed earlier, was that God didn’t arrive until the missionaries arrived.  You know, and so when we started to look at this we started to look into our culture and see what things within our culture what God had originally intended for this particular group of people, Hawaiians.” (Interview with three of the leaders from the indigenous people’s movements around the world, Word to the World, 2001)

Sui works with Kikawa and both share the same viewpoint. On Kikawa’s video “God’s Fingerprints in Japan” Kikawa states Japan was worshipping the true God in the past accurately: “It makes perfect sense that the Japanese people would have this revelation of God.” Why? Because these men have a “world culture view,” that believes all is one, theirs is not a “Christian worldview.” In other words,this can also be applied to any culture since they interpret Rom.1 as all cultures in the past knowing the true God.

Here is how they represent what they are doing “The Lord God of Israel created all mankind in His own image. He separated us into different languages and dispersed us throughout the world. Our God gave to each people the knowledge and wisdom needed to survive in each place. His hand has always been present in each of our histories…. (Indigenous Expressions of Biblical Faith http://wcgip.org/)

It has? Where does the Bible say this? It is matter of opinion of a few that are promoting this to the church. In fact, the Bible says the opposite, all one has to do is look up in bible history to see how God related to the cultures of the world. Acts 14:16: “who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways.” He gave the world their basic needs but was not involved in any of the cultures development or ways. To one nation only did he say, “And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one nation on the earth whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people, to make for Himself a name– and to do for Yourself great and awesome deeds for Your land– before Your people whom You redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, the nations, and their gods?”

There is no other nation that God chose to deliver and give his commands and Scripture to.This claim of God being involved in everyone’s history completely opposes the Bibles teaching on mankind’s true history. Though there may be good intentions behind these ideas, many “Christians” are becoming involved in this new philosophical view that affects their Biblical worldview. This does not excuse the fact that they are wrong on their main premise. The assumption is that God formed ALL the nations, cultures (specifically) and purposely put things in their culture that are equal to what He did with Israel. This is simply is not so. There are enough Bible examples contrary to this to explain that God did not approve of these cultures in ancient Bible times and does not today. What is ironic is that they call him the Lord God of Israel. But then what they teach changes Him to the Lord God of all nation’s cultures and people who were defiant and did not know him.

There is not one nation, before Christ, other than Israel where God speaks of their culture or priesthood as worshipping Him correctly. The one nation he gave the instructions to, otherwise they were making it all up. Even Israel, with all the commandments given directly and supernaturally, being instructed by God, often fell into idolatry which was influenced by the other cultures around them. God had written in Deut: 18:9: “When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.”

Deut.12:30-32: “take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ “You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods.”

Some take the position that He revealed Himself at some point to nearly all indigenous people groups prior to the Gospel being brought to them. They believe that in every culture God has left treasures and worthy traditions within their cultures to be used. Thus when we bring Jesus Christ to people we can then leave them to worship God in their own cultural and religious ways as they did in the past. They Mix up concepts of God by using cultural history or methods to worship him.

“God loves the cultural expressions that flow from them. They are finding many things within that flow from their cultural identity that were ordained by God.” (Video God’s Fingerprints in Japan by aloha Ke Akua)

The idea that God put his truth in every culture through history, even with contradictory values and practices seems to be overlooked by these people.

Paul went through Asia – nation after nation was affected with his message and they gave up their gods and idols. But we are now being told to allow them to keep parts of their religion and the culture that is saturated by this false worship and turn into true worship, thus redeeming the culture.

Daniel Kikawa who was heavily influenced by Richardson states, we have “Startling Evidence of Belief in the One True God in Hundreds of Cultures Throughout the World,” claiming that hundreds of cultures in the world were already worshipping YHWH. Again this is revisioning actual history. Archeologists and historians know different.

Mankind’s history is not one of submission but rebellion. Not long after man was judged for his lawlessness he united together to build a tower of his own way to worship the creation, not God. God destroyed the world of Noah’s time except for his family; God did not redeem any culture. God scattered the people at the tower of Babel for their disobedience. And they did not take the truth with them but took their false worship with them to cover the whole earth. They left Babel worshipping their false gods, they left looking to the stars, and developed further their false religions.

God did not give people their cultural “identities” or form their cultures. He confused their tongues at Babel as a judgment upon their trying to unify themselves without him. They were sent them away to populate the earth and the people of each separate language group began to develop their own culture Romans 1 tells us that men did not seek God, they instead traded the general revelation they had of God for worship of created things (Rom. 1:25) and from that they formed their cultures religions. 

Can anyone find where the Bible teaches to redeem a culture? Before one accepts and implements this new methodology they need to think this through BIBLICALLY. Do they have to abandon their cultural identity in order to come to Christ or use it express their faith in Christ. Their culture needs to be reevaluated through God’s viewpoint and not mans reasoning.

We have only one example of a massive revival of a people, Jonah. Jonah’s message changed a whole city and turned a vicious culture away from its own destructive tendencies but it did not redeem the culture. There was nothing to draw from it. Instead they forsook their gods to worship the true and living god of Israel.

God did not send angles to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah and teach him how to improve living among the aggressive homosexual culture he was in, they took him out. God did not keep Israel in Egypt to restructure their worship or bring them under Israel’s blessings. God had no intention of sending Moses into Egypt to try to reform Egyptian society but to rescue Israel. God took Israel OUT from Egypt and destroyed their cultural identity with all their god’s. God destroyed many of the cultures surrounding Israel as He brought them into the Promised Land, he approved of NONE of them. We do not see a redeemed culture at any time in history and neither is He doing this today. So this whole concept cannot be validated by the Bible. This is made up theology and practice.

God was destroying cultures before Christ came, not redeeming them. In the flood he destroyed everything that had breath that did not enter the ark because of how far man went in his idolatry and disobedience to God.

And, He will do it again in the end as sin and lawlessness becomes like a flood- he will deal harshly with the wickedness of world in every culture and society.

Using redemptive analogy is justified as a valid method of evangelism. We are told the prophets and even Jesus used the technique in his story-telling by saying “The kingdom of God is like.” Jesus’ method of communication was story telling (orality), and he used redemptive analogy within story-telling. Thus presenting the Gospel in terms which relate to the particular culture it is valid to use that culture to .

This is where we get to the basement and foundation of this whole mater. These are Grand Canyon leaps performed by those involved in this type of evangelizing. What they completely miss is that Jesus was communicating to the culture he formed by giving the Oracles of God to over millennia, the types and shadows , of everything their religious life (and secular which was not separate) were used to explain the true teaching of the law and the Scriptures

They change the meanings of their own religion and synthesize it to Christianity. Wiconi International endorses Eagles Wings (Randy and Edith Woodley) that claims the Great Spirit’s son is Jesus Christ:

“Both Native Americans, their mission is “to present the Great Spirit’s Son, Jesus Christ and His Words, the Bible to Native Americans in culturally relevant ways.” (http://www.ethnicharvest.org/peoples/nativeamer.htm)

The Great Spirit who they claim created the earth, pervaded everything, this is not the Holy Spirit who is separate from the creation he produced.

We welcome Native Americans into the body of Christ like we should do to all people from everywhere people and every nation, but they need to know to leave their spiritual traditions behind and follow Jesus Christ as the Bible teaches, so they do not blend it with their ancient ways.

There is always a portion of the truth with error when these men promote their indigenous agenda. speaking of the apostles Richard Twiss says- Their worldview was too small they could not recognize the new thing that God was doing outside the box of their own cultural understanding so rather than rejoice that people were delivered out of the clutches of hell and sent into the kingdom they criticized Peter because he broke their religious and social and cultural traditions So God had to dismantle their old covenant orientation toward the kingdom, but here’s the problem for us. … yet because their worldview was too small they were born-again bigots. For Jesus, filled with power absolutely, anointing, completely but their worldview was too small.. He then tells the audience he will be with emergent church leader “Brian McLaren, equipping today’s church for tomorrows challenges…” (TBN Sept.27, 2005 Interview by Dwight Thomson).

I don’ think it is right to call the apostles bigots even if it is tongue in cheek. Besides ignoring the fact that it was God who led Peter to open the door for the Gentiles to be part of the Body of Christ (Acts 10). Who criticized Peter because he broke their religious and social and cultural traditions. Twiss has misrepresented the actual history making it seem that it was It the church

Acts 10:45 “And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.”

Acts 11:2 “And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him”

We find out whom those of the circumcision are, the same ones that tried to ruin the Galatian church the Judaizers.

Acts 15:5 “But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” In vv.11-12 the apostles gave testimony of God’s work among the gentiles.Acts 15:22: “Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas”

So we can see by the Scripture that a slight twist or wrong interpretation and one can make the apostles prejudice when they were not, it was the religious sect of the Pharisees that were. No doubt the church had to reconcile these matters and that is exactly why the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15 was for.

Many misuse Rev.7 “After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.”

They have taken this out of its context and made it a pretext to their own presuppositions. It’s talking about people taken FROM NATIONS-TRIBES, THOSE OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. It does not say whole cultures, societies or nations. They are individuals from these various groups who have believed in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. 

To redeem, (redemption) in the biblical sense means to be brought back from a slaves marketplace. What we find is that God redeems individual people. Each person is spiritually born by making a personal choice in the gospel.

The Biblical concept of redeeming does not mean what these movements say it does. Nowhere does this imply that a culture had portions of true worship God put there and He was no going to bring them into a fuller understanding of what they already had. They did not have anything.

They use the word reconciling in a secular sense and remove it from its biblical definition. Reconciliation comes one way only

Rom. 5:10: “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,

Now that we are reconciled by the crucifixion the gospel, we are to bring it to others.

2 Cor. 5:18-20: “Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.”

What is that word? The gospel which has to do with men’s trespasses- their sins. Not with a nation, a belief system, political or religious.

Reconciliation is in Greek katallage-exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:

KJV– atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

The same thing is for the word redemption Greek- exagorazo-1) to redeem a) by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, to buy off b) metaphorically, used of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death 2) to buy up, to buy up for oneself, for one’s use to make wise and sacred use of every opportunity for doing good, so that zeal and well-doing are as it were the purchase money by which we make the time our own.

redemption -lutroo- 1) to release on receipt of ransom 2) to redeem, to liberate by payment of ransom a) to liberate b) to cause to be released to oneself by payment of a ransom c) to redeem d) to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external.

Rom. 3:24: “the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,” How, by the blood shed by the sinless son of God. As it says in Eph 1:7: “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, (also Col.1:14)

In the New Testament only people who believe the gospel are redeemed, there are no whole nations redeemed.

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” If you as a missionary go to a tribal group anywhere in the world and find that they are worshipping a god, you would not say, “I’m going to tell you who YOUR god is”—or the “good things that he has left you in your culture”–that’s not a biblical approach to evangelism. This completely different from saying, “Let me tell you who the true God is” showing them the difference and encouraging them to abandon the false gods and ways that they’ve been worshipping. Working with them patiently as they discover what they are doing is wrong. This was the approach of the apostles, i.e. Paul to the Gentiles. This was the approach of missionaries. I agree that sometimes the culture of the missionaries was sometimes brought into the conversion. Sometimes it was for good reason, (i.e. dressing up in western clothes than to continue walking around naked) other times it was mistakenly part of the package. We are to make a distinction between the religious and social aspects of a culture. One is neutral the other is not.

Deut 12:2-5: “You shall utterly destroy all the places where the nations which you shall dispossess served their gods, on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree. “And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. “You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things.” The Bible principle is made clear, do not use the former religious practices or items for worship to the true God.

In Joshua 7:10-12 Israel sinned, by taking the accursed things and put it among their own. V.12: “Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they have become doomed to destruction. Neither will I be with you anymore, unless you destroy the accursed from among you.” Joshua 7:21 tells us it was “a beautiful Babylonian garment, two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels”

Israel would be ensnared with pagan items and practices. Many purposely ignore this fact because it goes contrary to the new syncretistic evangelism that is being used. God did not give Israel one way and various other ways to the nations. In fact the bible is clear, he only picked Israel as the nation to be the recipient of his laws and ways.

Deut. 18:9-14: “When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.” Deut. 12:2-4 Israel was to destroy all the places where the nations served their gods, v.4 “You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things.”

We do not see God’s approval of adopting any nation’s customs into Judaism or Judaism into their customs and we should not adopt this idea into the church. There was to be no syncretism for Israel or the church.

When a false religious belief becomes ingrained in a culture, that culture cannot be redeemed, it needs to be abandoned for the truth.

If these things of other cultures were incorporated in their religious practices they were not to be carried into the worship of Yahweh, the people were to be holy. Judgment was severe Josh. 7:15: ‘Then it shall be that he who is taken with the accursed thing shall be burned with fire.” Just like they burned their magic books in Act 19 when they were saved, they abandoned what was not of God. But today the line is blurred and the indigenous people are being told that what they have is of God. Hardly the truth.

Terry Lebanc says,”There’s a myth that we have labored under for centuries in indigenous communities and the myth is that we are a godless heathen people” (Word to the World Interview by Danny Lehmann 2001).

Actually the ancient people practiced myths and did not have the truth. Who said so? God did. 1 Cor. 1:21: “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom DID NOT KNOW GOD, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.” The message the gospel needs to be heard in its pure form, not tainted with a cultural genre or ancient traditions.

John 1:9-11: “That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.”

Notice how this is worded, the world did not know him, and Israel did not receive him.

A Bible Smorgasbord

Ps 119:104-105: “Through Your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.”

To make inroads to a culture there are those who have taken the liberty to change the word of God by adding that cultures (or religion or countries) gods name. Or they ignore the word for word translation and substitute a culturized version of their language and customs, this is not a biblical way to do evangelism. Now we have bibles that tell stories more than give us what God spoke as our instruction for living a spiritual life pleasing unto him.

Consider what they did here in Hawaii with a new translation of the Bible by Wycliffe Bible Translators.

Gospel of John Tell bout Jesus

1:1 Da time everyting had start, had one Guy. “God’s Talk,” dass who him. Dat Guy an God, dey stay togedda, an da Guy stay God fo real kine. 2 Dass da Guy, da time everyting had start, him an God stay togedda. 3 God wen make every­ting, but da way he do um, he tell dis Guy fo do um. No mo notting dis Guy neva make.

14 Dat “God’s Talk” Guy, he wen come one guy jalike us guys. He wen stay wit us. We wen see how awesome he stay awesome, cuz he da one an ony Boy dat come from dadda. He like do plenny good stuff fo us, cuz dass how he stay. Everyting he say bout God, stay fo real. (Da Jesus Book p244 pidgin Bible- year 2000)

Can you see the reverence in one of the most important passages on his deity and incarnation diminished and belittled.

Gal.1:6-9 You guys blow my mind! Quick time you guys pau trus God an go trus odder kine stuff. God wen pick you guys cuz he like Christ fo do plenny good kine stuff fo you guys. But you guys go trus odder kine stuff awready. 7 Da kine odder stuff dey teach, dass not da Good Kine Stuff Bout Christ. Dem guys like change da Good Kine Stuff Bout Christ. Dey ony stay jam up you guys. 8 Listen! Even if us guys o one angel guy from da sky tell you guys odder kine stuff, diffren from da Good Kine Stuff From God dat we wen teach you guys befo, God goin punish um foeva. 9 Jalike we wen tell you guys befo, I goin say urn one mo time: Whoever teach you guys diffren kine stuff den da Good Kine Stuff From God dat you guys wen take from us, God goin punish um foeva. (Pidgin Bible p. 500)

Somehow the meaning and seriousness of the passage is lost.

I also looked at key passages of his deity

Phil.2:5  All you guys, tink lidis, jalike Jesus Christ: 6 Jesus, he everytime stay jalike God. But no matta,

He neva tink he gotta go hang on to dat. 7 He let um all go, So he can make himself one poor worka guy, An come jalike peopo. Wen da peopo see him, Dey figga he jus one guy.

8 He wen make himself jalike he no stay importan. He wen do everyting God say, Even if he gotta go mahke. An not jus regula kine mahke, you know. Was mo worse, on top one cross.

9 Dass why God make Jesus da main Guy. He wen give him one spesho name, Fo tell wat kine guy him. Cuz he mo importan den all da big name guys!

10 So everybody, wen dey find out wat kine guy Jestis, Dey goin go down on dea knees in front him. Everybody up dea inside da sky, An all ova da world, An undaneat da groun!

11 Wit dea mout, everybody goin tell, “Jesus Christ, da Spesho Guy God Wen Send, He da Boss!” Cuz a dat, peopo goin say,”God da Fadda, he awesome fo shua!”

We are to become more educated when we are believers; this is perpetuating a slang language which does not help one understand the HOLY WORD of GOD. If this is where the Bible translations are headed, we need to speak up before this becomes a normal use in our evangelistic efforts.

Here is another example that is disheartening. David Marshall gives a story of his way (tao)

“I was coming into contact with another religious culture in its most traditional and ancient form, one that had nothing to do with the Western God, and wanted to have nothing to do with Him. It was a revival of Chinese worship of Heaven that went back thousands of years, and had been enacted in a grand way upon an altar on Mount Tai in Shandong Province, long before the time of Confucius, and the great Jewish prophets. 

The building should have been as alien to me as anything on earth. (Apart from the Douglas firs.) Yet it shocked me with its familiarity. The four gold and red inside pillars reminded me of four gold-leafed, red-letter-edition Gospels. The twelve red outside pillars seemed to suggest the twelve patriarchs and twelve apostles of the Bible — symbolized in Christian writings by pillars sprinkled with blood. The twelve tribes of Israel, too, had been arranged in four groups around the Tabernacle and the Holy of Holies.”

“the more I have studied non-Christian cultures and beliefs of various cultures and periods, the more I have become persuaded that the truth is just the opposite. Jesus is the Tao that Confucius and Lao Zi were looking for, the Rta of Indian philosophers or Purusa of the Rig Veda, the Divine Logos of St. the Apostle John. John’s famous words about that Logos are correctly translated as follows in Chinese: “In the beginning was the Tao. And the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God. . . All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. . . .” 

And then, as if to wake all the philosophers and day-dreamers among us up: 

“And the Tao became flesh and dwelt among us.” 

(How I Learned Jesus Is the Tao By David Marshall http://www.homestead.com/christthetao/learned.html)

Much of what Marshall says is interpreted as subjective and personal and finds a correlation when there really is none and has no basis in history or reality. The fact that many of these emergent writers have a whole different angle in seeing the Bible and culture and reinterpret it in whatever way they think is best for those they want to connect with. This concept makes Jesus the everything for everyone.

Consider this found in Chinese Bibles, the “Logos” is translated to “Tao. in John 1:1-2: “In the beginning was the Tao. and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God… The Tao became flesh and dwelt among us”

To quote the passage on the deity of Christ and his eternal relationship with the Father as the Tao tells me that this person neither knows about the Tao and even less about the Scriptures meaning. To do such a rendition of the Bible is absurd. But nothing is off-limits to these “cultural change agents.” This is merging to belief systems to make them sympathetic to each other. They relate it to the Greek philosophers Heraclitus, Socrates that held to the logos being abstract and impersonal. John is using a Hebraism. John wrote his gospel in Greek used Greek words for Jewish concepts not Hellenistic. This Word is a title for the Son of God who possesses the very same nature as the Father. What John was doing was explaining the true meaning of logos compared to the Greek writers. The common term in the Old Testament for “word” is dabhar (used in the Septuagint). “In Hebrew thought, the dabar was dynamic and filled with a power that was transmitted to those who received it. The term was often used to designate God’s communication to his people, as at the beginning of many of the writings of the prophets: “The word of the Lord came.” The whole of the Law, or all of Scripture, could then be referred to as God’s Word. (Holman Bible Dictionary LOGOS)

Clearly if they do not have the same words of the Bible delivered from God then the Tao is not the same Word who was made flesh. If the god of the nations is the same God then certainly this would be evident by more than a few similarities (As Romans 1 says they have corrupted portions left).

Tao means Way, and it is left for the seeker to discover within. Lao Tzu wrote “The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.” The Tao is an impersonal Supreme — there exist lesser divinities, it is the oneness of all creation, in the spirituality of the material realms and in the brotherhood of all men.

Taoism is concerned with man’s spiritual being, and in the Tao, te-Ching the awakened man is compared to bamboo: upright, simple and useful outside-and hollow inside. The knowable universe is composed of opposite components, physical (hard/soft; dark/light), moral (good/bad), or biological (male/female), which are classed as either YANG or YIN. Thus two opposing forces make up the whole.

To say the word –is the Son, which the Bible says has no darkness is the Tao, should be repulsive to Bible believers who want to do real evangelism, but this kind of new Christianity is being embraced and taught through numerous missionary organizations. I was told once in a correspondence with someone using Tarot cards to evangelize that what we are doing is old and passe’ and is being replaced. Replaced by what?

Christ never attempted to reform the culture of His day neither did he instruct the Apostles to do so. They “turned the world upside down” (Acts 17:6) by preaching the gospel to people of many different cultures. Redeem a culture? Why do something the Bible says nothing about and think you are doing evangelism.

In the endeavor to redeem cultures the work of the Holy Spirit is put aside and a reliance on human ingenuity and methods is instead used. This essentially compromises the Spirit of truths’ work. God is not unable to save the same way He did from the beginning, he does not need us to improve on his methods or ways – we only need to speak what he has told us. If we exercise faith and allow the Spirit of truth to work we will see the results we desire and will not have to opt for these made up methods of man.

End of article

This even states Host for the evening, the General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God, Pastor Enoch Adeboye, added his endorsement to HOPE 2014 and prayed: ‘In the United Kingdom, let there be light; let there be revival and may the revival begin in 2014.’

Who is Pastor Enoch Adeboye “Enoch Adejare Adeboye is a Nigerian pastor and the General Overseer of Redeemed Christian Church of God there are issues concerning controversies with this Pastor for example his doctrine on health, wealth and prosperity in an article called Gods Private Jets this states that these people are worth in the millions of dollars this states:

AND it came to pass, that the congregation of the Lord in the Word of Life Bible Church took count of the 40 years marked by the wonderful things that Jehovah, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, had done through his humble servant, Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor, in their lives and they were ashamed that they had treated the anointed servant of the Lord very poorly.

They had left him to the indignity of travelling by car and commercial air travel to his many deliverance missions in near and far places even when his fellow Daddy Overseers owned private jets.

And being deeply shamed, they said unto themselves, Behold, in this year of our Lord, our father in Christ shall mark the 40th year of the “unique anointing upon his life” that has “brought salvation, deliverance, revival, healing and outstanding miracles to millions across the world as God’s power is demonstrated with signs and wonders.”

Now, therefore, let us hasten and do unto him according to the riches with which the Lord has blessed us; let us buy for him a private jet.

And in this, we shall do as our brethren in the Living Faith Ministries did unto Bishop David Oyedepo, and in the Redeemed Christian Church of God unto Pastor Enoch Adeboye, and in the Redeemed Evangelical Mission unto Bishop Mike Okonkwo, and in Christ Embassy Church unto Pastor Chris Oyakhilome.

Pastor Enoch Adeboye and other nigerian pastors the mega church model makes big business, A report by the BBC  says that a growing number of Nigeria’s 70 million Christians are flocking after “prosperity mega churches” who teach church members that economic and material blessings in the present life are the primary benefits of the “Gospel.” According to the report, most of the Nigeria’s “prosperity churches” are led by multi-millionaire pastors who present their personal material success as models of the benefits of “following Christ.”

Prosperity mega-churches are popular in the southwestern region of Nigeria , especially Lagos, a vast sprawling metropolis and financial center of Nigeria with a population estimated at over 10 million. please goto http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14713151 to see video.

This says ” An increasing number of Nigeria’s 70 million Christians are following so called “prosperity teachings” – the belief that prosperity is a blessing.

Services are held in mega-churches, with millionaire pastors preaching the word.

Tomi Oladipo reports.

One of the most popular prosperity mega-churches in Nigeria is the Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG), led by the Pastor Enoch Adeboye, known to this followers as “Daddy G.O” (Daddy General Overseer). A few years ago, Enoch Adeboye made Newsweek’s list of top 50 Global Elites. Adeboye was the only African on a list of the world’s most influential leaders which included the Pope Benedict XVI. According to the Newsweek, Adeboye is “one of the world’s most powerful people.”

According to AfricanLoft, Pastor Enoch Adeboye, a former University mathematics teacher,  leads a church with over 14,000 branches in 110 countries. The U.S. and the U.K. alone have over 700 branches of the Church. RCCG-UK organizes a religious gathering which is one of the largest religious gatherings in Europe while its North American counterpart ranks among the most popular immigrant religious groups in the U.S. and Canada. RCCG recently acquired 100 acres of land in Floyd, rural Texas, on which the church intends to set up a private university and convention facility.

RCCG in Nigeria recently completed a worship auditorium one mile long and half a mile wide and can take up to one million people at once.

But what explains RCCG’s extraordinary success? Pastor Adeboye admits frankly:

Pentecostals have such an impact because they talk of the here and now, not just the by and by…We pray for the sick, but we pray for their prosperity, for their overcoming of evil forces and so on. While we have to worry about heaven, there are some things God could do for us in the here and now.

Adeboye’s message to his five million strong Nigerian followers is not about reward in the afterlife or  blissful repose in heaven after death. You seldom hear of “salvation of the soul” on his pulpit sermons but reward here and now in the most material terms possible. His sermons are dominated by prayers and promises of economic and material prosperity: new jobs, bigger salaries, new homes, new cars, business success, victory over enemies both spiritual and physical, babies for the barren, healing for the sick, victory at the polls for the politicians and presidents who patronize him.

And mammon hungry Nigerians just can’t get enough of Adeboye’s promises of the “blessings of Solomon” here and now. Adeboye’s appetite for growth, even after he has amassed “gargantuan fellowship,” is insatiable. His goal is to “plant churches the way Starbucks used to build coffee shops: everywhere.” Adeboye says:

In the developing world we say we want churches to be within five minutes’ walk of every person. In the developed world, we say five minutes of driving.

This report was exposing the prosperity mega churches in Nigeria, the UK and the USA

For one of many reasons it does not actually benefit people nor does it lead people to Christ but robs people through false hope and misleading claims.

It would take HOPE’s Director, Roy Crowne to blindly led many astray into giving the impression that what we have here is simply a Christian event nothing could be further from the truth.

He states “Roy Crowne explained: ‘HOPE’s season of prayer starts tonight in this place because we recognise that what the Redeemed churches do best is pray. Hundreds of thousands of people are longing to see our nation changed by the love of Christ. HOPE is a catalyst supporting churches to do more together in mission – in words and action.’

How exactly is the love of Christ being demonstrated through deceitful workers that inflict financial suffering and burdens on its members giving them empty promises that God will make you prosper and they say don’t judge, when the BBC report has shown that many are suffering in Nigeria because of these people’s love and greed for Money, influence and Power through manipulative means.

Do not be deceived by what is being promoted by Hope Together and the RCCG causes a hindrance to the Gospel.

In Christ

Miguel Hayworth

20/05/2015

Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE) – Ecumenical Deception Part 2

01:03:36 | 58.1 MB

Part 2

In 1980, The Lausanne Committee for World Evangelism (LCWE) sponsored the Consultation on World Evangelisation (COWE) in Pattaya, Thailand. “Reaching Jews” was one of the 17 mini-consultation groups at that event. The enthusiasm of the leaders in the field of Jewish evangelism who attended to expand the network gave rise to the formation of a task force, now called the Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE).

Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE) – Ecumenical Deception

 

Duration: 1:02:57 | Size: 57.64M

Part 1

In 1980, The Lausanne Committee for World Evangelism (LCWE) sponsored the Consultation on World Evangelisation (COWE) in Pattaya, Thailand. “Reaching Jews” was one of the 17 mini-consultation groups at that event. The enthusiasm of the leaders in the field of Jewish evangelism who attended to expand the network gave rise to the formation of a task force, now called the Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE).

Victory Outreach Manchester deceitful dealings.

escudovaticano

 

On Saturday 26 April 2015 I was approached by the Victory Outreach Church (VO) in Manchester. My reason for being in Manchester was for the witness to the gospel in the face of some of the new atheist movement, who were in Manchester at the QED convention. At the beginning there were 3 of us and in this we were approached by Victory Outreach who were claiming that they were giving people the gospel, upon examination of these claims there was no gospel given, their outreach was more encouraging the world to come into fellowship with them. I had stipulated that I was opposed to what VO Manchester were practicing, as their are certain deceitful practices, including their ecumenical activities not just in Manchester but Victory Outreach Globally because its ecumenism started with Victory Outreach International, the group leader did not exhibit any knowledge of this and denied these claims to be true, in spite of Tim Cook’s Jesus Manchester group that were present with them on Saturday 26 April 2015. An ecumenical group called Jesus Manchester (aka, MJK, Make Jesus Known) was with them. MJK is part of TES (The Evangelisation Society) which also runs countiesuk, counties uk lists MJK as part of this ecumenical group. MJK has been involved with, and collaborates with, Hope Together, The Message Trust, Churches Together, Local Evangelism & Mission Network Aid etc.:

Victory Outreach Manchester have been involved with interfaith/ecumenical groups, such as:

Hope Together (AKA Hope 2008)

Manchester’s sister branch of Victory Outreach in London is were Victory Outreach Manchester’s Paul Lloyd is a speaker, are also known to have supported More than Gold (In part run and organised by the RCC, as seen by the photos of the Catholic Bishops Conference), CNI reported on Victory Outreach who were one of the bodies that were part of supporting More Than Gold (who are ecumenical).

VO

Victory Outreach Manchester has contact with Churches together, (The document in the churches together link shows Victory Outreach have involvement with Churches Together for Greater Manchester Since 2009) CTIB collaborate with other Churches, this includes the RCC. Churches Together are also sister to the World Council of Churches.

This means weather in London or Manchester, Victory Outreach are counter-reformation, by action they do not support any separation from the Roman Catholic Church, but is strongly emphasising unity with the Papacy, it was interesting that VO emphasised evangelisation and not evangelism, this shows they have rejected historical biblical conservative evangelical practices, as evangelisation is a term used by the Catholic Church to remove any distinctive from historical conservative Protestantism. They were quite dishonest and the group leader was excessively controlling over VO church members, as they were expressly forbidden from speaking to me and were told that I had an evil spirit in me and the devil takes many forms. The individual was not only very controlling but he was ignoring anything that I was trying to explain to him, as to why what they are doing is dangerous and can only mean one thing; that all roads lead to the Roman Catholic Church.

One of their leaders stated that “I will never become a Catholic!”. I have known one of the members of this church for some time and recently he was present during a Roman Catholic Mass, inside a Roman Catholic Church, praying with them and claiming that he believed Roman Catholics inside the Roman Catholic Church are his brothers in the Lord and are saved. He even believes that of the Catholic Priests and the response given by one of their group, “Touch not the Lord’s anointed”, shows a deep lack of knowledge of the scriptures. They also quote Ps 105:11-15 totally misrepresenting the context.

http://www.letusreason.org/Pent47.htm

Loyalty is a good thing if it is for the right purpose and for truth. One certainly does not want to be loyal and find they have pledged their allegiance to something that is false.

“He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD” (Proverbs 17:150

But for one to find out what is true or false they must look into matter and hear both sides before they make a final judgment. “The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge” (Proverbs 18:15).

In a time of catchy phrases and clichés’, Christians can be no different. What does the Bible mean when it says not to touch God’s anointed? It’s not my opinion or yours that matters; but what God’s Word have to say about this that really counts? I certainly wish the people who repeat this phrase would read it in its context, ‘the Lord’s anointed’, is a reference to the kings of the nation of Israel (1Sam. 12:3,5; 24:6,10; 26:9,11, 16,23; 2 Sam. 1:14,16; 19:21; Psalm 20:6; Lam. 4:20). The mention of prophets, is a reference to the patriarchs (Psalm 105:8-15; 1Chron. 16:15-22). It is used exclusively in the Old Testament.

Ps 105:11-15 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan as the allotment of your inheritance,” When they were few in number, indeed very few, and strangers in it. When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people, “He permitted no one to do them wrong; yes, He rebuked kings for their sakes, Saying, “Do not touch My anointed ones, and do My prophets no harm.”  Notice in this Scripture that God protected His anointed (who was Israel) and His prophets from the enemies of Israel to bring physical harm.

The first thing one should notice is that the word touch actually means physical harm. What it does not mean is saying something about another person publicly that is true. How do we know this? Because that’s exactly what David did about Saul. It was David who said he would not harm God’s anointed, who was King Saul at the time but He spoke out publicly about him.

Not only David, but Samuel “touched God’s anointed,” as he spoke out against the kings disobedience. God told Saul to “Smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not…” (1 Sam. 15:3). But instead, he spoke a half truth and “spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord…” (v.15). Samuel said it was rebellion like witchcraft and idolatry (v.24). Because he did not obey the Word of the Lord he would be removed being king. Saul admitted he feared the people and obeyed their voice. What a crucial thing to learn of Saul who was God’s anointed.

In1 Sam.16:13-16 we find David who was shepherd boy was anointed before God took away Saul’s position. David refused to touch Saul physically but it didn’t stop him from telling everyone the truth about him publicly.

David not raising his hand to touch (harm physically) God’s anointed is used in 1 Sam.26:9,11,23. Look at 1 Sam.26:11: tells us that David would not stretch his hand out to touch him (harm him); instead he sneaked up and took Saul’s spear and water jug. In verse 15 David rebukes Abner for not guarding Saul and says he deserved to die. Saul hears the commotion and comes out, and David rebukes Saul before all his troops, asking why he is pursuing David’s life since he is innocent — that the king has come out to seek a flea. Saul then repented for his rash behavior and called himself a fool. David returned Saul’s possessions and said, “For the Lord delivered you into my hand but I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord’s anointed.” Notice what this means, not to bring physical harm.

1 Samuel 24:10 “Look, this day your eyes have seen that the LORD delivered you today into my hand in the cave, and someone urged me to kill you. But my eye spared you, and I said, ‘I will not stretch out my hand against my lord, for he is the Lord’s anointed.” “And David said to Abishai, “Do not destroy him; for who can stretch out his hand against the Lord’s anointed, and be guiltless?”(1 Sam. 26:9)

Saul was anointed as King over Israel he had a position of rulership that was soon to be over. Knowing he was next in line David refused to physically touch the king as God’s anointed and remove him from his position prematurely. It was God, not David who would remove Saul from his position (26:8-10).

We should notice an important part in this story, it was Saul who was pursuing David, hunting him down and trying to kill him. The Bible story has Saul whose position was threatened, pursuing to kill David who was innocent. Isn’t this what we see today? Those who are in a greater position of leadership going after people who are anointed that are challenging them in what they are saying and doing as wrong. From their position they have trained people to listen to them and willing to silence their challengers. They do this by going after them with Bible threats such as “don’t touch God’s anointed” or you are committing the “blasphemy the Holy Spirit” when you speak against another “man of God.” Ignoring the fact that blasphemy meant one is saying that Jesus’ miracles were done by an unclean spirit, not about questioning another mans alleged miracles. Those of the flesh are pursuing those who are of the Spirit, just as Saul did to David. Those who are following the Spirit of the Lord go to His Word to keep themselves in the truth no matter what the opposition may say.

It’s interesting that in Rev. 6:9 John writes “When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.” They were killed because they held to the Word against the opposition and so they became martyrs. Those who apostatize from the Word always hate those who keep it.

We find the story of Saul ends with David kept from the Battle that Saul and Jonathan lost their lives in, instead he fought the Amalakites. An Amalakite messenger came back with torn clothes and dust on his head showing he was in mourning, David inquired of him and he told David he killed Saul. “So David said to him, “How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the LORD’s anointed?” Then David called one of the young men and said, “Go near, and execute him!” And he struck him so that he died. So David said to him, “Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the LORD’s anointed.’”(2 Sam 1:13-16) Again it is clear, to touch the anointed means to bring physical harm, most often death. But if you spiritualize it, it can mean anything you want. 2 Sam 1:17-19 David took up this lament concerning Saul and his son Jonathan, and ordered that the men of Judah be taught this lament of the bow (it is written in the Book of Jashar): “Your glory, O Israel, lies slain on your heights. How the mighty have fallen!” Each time is about those who were killed. David did not relish the fact that God’s anointed was apostate and met his end, he wept.

Since most of these so called anointed teachers that come under their follower’s protection teach the Word out of context, it’s not surprising that they would quote a verse of Scripture removed  from its correct meaning for their own self- protection. Those who shout don’t touch God’s anointed think they are doing God’s work, but they rarely ever look at the facts presented. They listen to their teachers and do not want to hear the other side of the story. They cut themselves off from hearing the truth. And some, even when they are shown false teachings and prophecies do not care, but look to some personality who captured their loyalty. They become enemies of all reason, their own worst enemy. They do not realize they have been trained well, and like Pavlov’s dogs, react the same way each time. It’s time to break free!

 

The dilemma that VO face is that the Roman Catholic Church rejects the sole authority of the Bible and the attitude shown by them reveals that they do not seem to be very concerned about this.

This means that VO is either acting out of ignorance of core fundamental Roman Catholic teachings or they do know but don’t care that many are being deceived by Roman Catholicism. VO is deliberately seeking unity with those who defend another gospel, Rome’s false Gospel.

During the Olympics I was in London outside its partner event for 2012 Ultimate Gold/More Than Gold in Stratford London. Ultimate Gold was encouraging gross idolatry in promoting the Roman Catholic Eucharist by 19 evangelical pastors.

Stratford Churches - Ultimate Gold

Victory Outreach had given their seal of approval to these ecumenical and catholic groups, this is the nature of wholesale apostasy with in these movements as seen in CHURCHES TOGETHER 2009

Victory Outreach Manchester’s “christian alternative” to Halloween.

halloween

Victory Outreach is a danger to individuals through its ministry and to the spiritual well being of and to the resilience of the wider church towards a popular cultural mandate – in this instance progressive ( i.e. modernising and therefore by implication – ever changing) cultural contextualisation.

V.O. displays doctrinal errancy in its practices and ecumenism, this pastor shows a prime example of the preoccupation and emphasis for “entertainment” in the modern Christian churches.

Whilst most believe what the Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:22 “I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some” they misrepresent the Apostle Paul, I don’t believe the Apostle Paul had in mind anything which ‘progressive evangelicals’ such as Victory Outreach (who are not biblical conservative evangelicals) pursue in what is called “Progressive Cultural Contextualisation” (PCC).

If Victory Outreach were historic (conservative) evangelical literalists, they would see that this ‘PCC’ is a movement towards spiritual declension and would never have promoted nor even considered any sycretising of the pagan and satanic activities of Halloween by holding an entertaining alternative.

This is an intellectualised seeker-sensitive endeavour where pre-ministry conditioning has a mandatory period of contemporary worship to render the recipient more malleable to spiritual manipulation.

It is within Victory Outreach methodology of Cultural contextualisation, which is rendering of people into a spiritually receptive condition through its programs must always be accurately described as ‘progressive cultural contextualisation’ because that is what it is and must always be in order to remain new / fresh / vibrant / relevant and acceptable to the contemporary audience which is clear that Victory Outreach practice.

The practices that are being applied to this popular cultural contextualisation by historic, conservative evangelicals is called Christian Downgrade; which now plays a well recorded part in church history that goes back 130 years to the ‘defeat’ of a small contingent of Godly men by ‘progressive evangelicals’ – to understand these points you would have to study up on The Downgrade Controversy.

Victory Outreach as a whole is an example where the spiritual progeny of these ‘Progressive Evangelicals’ now inhabits the vast majority of so called evangelical churches. But those who are bringing the influences into the evangelical camp are the backbone to groups like the Gospel Coalition / Evangelicals and Catholics Together / Evangelical Alliance / The great unifying gatherings like Promise Keepers, Soul Survivor, Global Day of Prayer / The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association (with 3 generations of compromising Neo-evangelical leaders / UK’s Spring Harvest / New Wine / Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship / The Lausanne Movement / WCC / Willlowbank Consultation 1978 / Churches Together etc etc.

Where we stand is that as a ministry, we do not follow their teachings this is nothing more then calling “The Cross cultural mission: recontextualising, not redefining the gospel.” There has already been documents written up on contextualisation but that is more akin to redefining the gospel to fit in with the culture, this is what I believe where Victory Outreach is guilty, even going so far as to treat indigenous culture as a type of Old Testament revelation (natural revelation). Adherents of this false view would equal to that of Don Richardson (eternity in their hearts) and CS Lewis theory of mythopoeia and from resulting in global liberation theologies.

Bear in mind – man’s genius at masking his inner nature as I had witnessed in Manchester by Victory Outreach members.

Just as those that walk apart from the God of the Bible are adept at wearing ‘fig leaves’ so is the modern Christian; we are prone to ‘wander’ (not perhaps in rampant and open rebellion) but many Christians equally practiced at ‘wearing their mask’ and Victory Outreach is no exception to this.

It is through groups like Victory Outreach that manifests itself with large, jubilant worshipping gatherings of ‘Christian believers’ all one in praising God with arms raised and swaying bodies in the ecstasy of true worship. The one point (and we only need ONE point) to display is the dire lack of true spiritual maturity and piety of lifestyle.

We don’t experience that where we are. Not one meeting has that kind of vibe of ecstasy. Although ecstatic worship was practiced by people like David in the bible (Psalm 7 whether With or purely vocal) we certainly don’t experience that.

We have huge congregations that could well show us historic evangelicals a thing or two about the worship of God. Particularly those evangelicals (and in truth and reality, there is a oneness in that word that encompasses all – not in a broadness of unity but always in narrowness with no exception. (In other words, there are evangelicals and evangelicals that are non-evangelical – some call them New or Neo-evangelicals).

Victory Outreach rejects literal biblical Orthodoxy in doing so they lead many astray.

Our standard must be scripture and not neo-evangelical, nor traditional Christianity. Both have been affected by culture. It is scripture that is our standard.

True problems and nature of Victory Outreach.

It is the Godless man in the world that is self-deluded with his desire to satisfy ‘self’ (his own innate, intuitive needs or even those needs that are consciously felt and inwardly ‘acknowledged’ even though godless man is loathed to admit to his nature and its power on his life.

Among many Christian groups they most clearly operate in deceit and the power of the flesh. They are prompted and governed by the flesh; most certainly not by God. Where did this impetus come from?….. Only from a very slight deviation of evangelical orthodoxy – the Bible.

It is said today that a new type of evan­gelism through the radio/tv and correspondence lessons are undoubtedly just as effective in reaching many. They also claim they are proving the effi­cacy of visual aids as an evangelistic aid and this is partly using music. And they add also the evangelistic influence of our schools, sanatoriums, colporteurs, and others, they call this mission.

A quote from a Christian Source that promotes the idea that they stated that music is used as an aid in leading many into listening to the gospel preached, relevant magazine they stated:

It is Over the last 20 or 30 years, the idea of churches being culturally relevant has dominated Christian culture and has been one of the most important issues in philosophies on evangelism and outreach. As churches seek to communicate the Gospel, they often look to Jesus as having been culturally relevant and base evangelistic programs and practices on this idea.

However, if we were truly following the lead of Jesus, there would not be people like Julia Duin, author of Quitting Church, predicting that, “in 15 years, present trends continuing, the church in America will be half of what it is.”

Could our methods of culturally relevant evangelism actually be missing their mark?

It’s odd that most of the conversations on relevant evangelism seem to be focused on church programs and gatherings and that many of our efforts are an attempt to make church into a place that people will come and feel comfortable. But isn’t the whole point of evangelism that the Church gets out of its comfort zone and goes to the people?

This is how Jesus starts the Great Commission found in Matthew 28:18-20. “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go …”

This issue reveals the bad ecclesiology—the theology of what groups like Victory Outreach is—that many Christ followers have. We often distort the idea of what a biblical church is. Jesus never wanted us to attract a bunch of non-Christians to some building or meeting. He wanted us to be an attraction outside of the church walls. And He wanted Himself to shine through us where we all work, live, play, shop and do life together.

This issue also reveals misplaced theology of the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:5). The way we do evangelism today in many churches, consciously or unconsciously, communicates that sharing the Gospel should be left for the professionals. “You want your friend to know Jesus? Why don’t you bring them to our next outreach where he can hear it straight from our amazing, seminary-trained pastor!”

An example was that Biblical Gospel preachers were traveling preachers, just as the apostles were, when they purposed to do evangelistic endeavors. This is not only the example shown in scripture, but also in the Didache, an early document of the New Testament era which is alleged to be the teaching of the 12 apostles to gentile readers. It contains nothing other than what is clearly taught in the New Testament, but shows how those teachings should be applied in the Gentile context.

This write-up confirms that, not only would these evangelists be itinerant and that they would rely on the hospitality of other people, but also it shows that they would not stay long in one town. Are we unbiblical for not following the apostolic pattern in its entirety? Or do you think we should pick and choose what we believe we should do? Do we dismiss the apostolic example and remain in the same city year after year and preach the same message there? The longest Paul stayed in a city was three years at Ephesus and that was primarily to build up the brethren and not to share the gospel with unbelievers.

In the Bible we are instructed and commanded to preach, the description of where they went from town to town is not instructed or commanded but what they did was written down and did not exceed what we are instructed, as demonstrated scripture, we take the primary principle what is sacred should be kept sacred and not to lead the unbelievers into any fellowship with any church, Victory Outreach by its nature does none of these things, other then adopt methods that are created and influenced by Romanism in its teachings and practices such as the christianising of Halloween.

Victory Outreach London and Manchester.

Victory Outreach in  London and Manchester is part of global ministry Victory Outreach International, Victory Outreach London, Manchester and Victory Outreach International have been known to support ministries that are responsible for leading so many astray.

In a statement made by Victory Outreach Manchester on the TBN website, January 5th 2015 the Launch of TBN UK on freeview terrestrial tv.

Pastor Colin Ruddock of Victory Outreach in Manchester said that “to know TBN UK is going to be broadcasting here is really exciting. This is going to change the whole way people see Christianity and what the gospel actually means. Having TBN here is one of the biggest, most powerful moves for reaching so many people at one time.

paulcrouchandthepope(Paul Crouch TBN Founder and the Pope)

TBN is a tool that is used by the Roman Catholic Church’s agenda to promote another gospel that leads to another Christ, this is the very tool that is being endorsed and promoted with enthusiasm by Victory Outreach in Manchester, some of the programming and practices aired by TBN were Roman Catholic, Victory Outreach is not concerned about the false teachings promoted by the Roman Catholic Church.

I have seen that this form of acceptance of Catholics from members of Victory Outreach saying they are Christians, the problem is this leads evangelicals confused resulting in some of the members of victory outreach viewing that if Catholics are our brothers and sisters in Christ then it is ok to go and attend an adoration of the Eucharist Service (The Roman Catholic Mass) the problem with Victory Outreach is you have vulnerable people and its members look to people like Paul Lloyd and  for leadership, they are also spiritually lethal in that their leaders have the potential to mislead people into believing they are Christians when according to the Scriptures they are not, this means that they believe it acceptable that Catholics have a false Christ who’s death on the cross was not sufficient for the forgiveness of sins through the acceptance of ecumenical unity.

This is part of the “New Evangelization” program implemented by the Roman Catholic Church, it emphasised by Catholic Books and documents on ecumenism that the Vatican’s agenda to win the world to the Eucharistic Jesus, this is an offense to those who were murdered by the RCC for showing difference to the Eucharist and were willing to die for their faith in Jesus Christ alone.

It is unfortunate that in my experiance there are many “Protestant” evangelical Christians, some of who Victory Outreach promote this includes TBN, also have a plan to establish the Kingdom of God here on earth. It would seem this “Kingdom Now” plan has the potential of merging with the Roman Catholic plan.

A few examples of this is found on TBN’s website:

votbn1

 votbn2

Paul Crouch Jr., Vice President of Administration for TBN, noted that Father Manning’s broadcast ministry crosses all denominational and cultural lines, making it a perfect fit for TBN. “His relevant and heartfelt teachings have clearly illustrated that ‘Christ crucified and then resurrected is the center of what all Christians believe … the rest is just window dressing.’ On behalf of everyone at TBN, I congratulate Father Manning on receiving this prestigious and much deserved award from Pope Benedict XVI.”

Pastor Colin Ruddock of Victory Outreach in Manchester expects us to believe that the RCC represents the real face of Christianity that promotes the gospel through TBN, in this TBN broadcasts Roman Catholic teaching that the Roman Catholic Priests holds to an unbiblical perspective in the Catholic Teaching of the Crucifixion etc, this is what TBN represents this should never bring any true Bible believing christian to support Victory Outreach.

TBN broadcast shows from Benny Hinn Ministries, Kenneth Copeland, Rick Warren, etc and these very people are also promoted as endorsements for Victory Outreach International who’s founder is friends with Rick Warren, and is promoted by Victory Outreach, personally acknowledged and endorsed by Rick Warren who is a proven deceiver.

Rick-Warren-VOrickwarrenvo1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It maybe about time that Rick Warren comes out of the closet for his support for gay rights campaigner such as that Rick Warren shown his support for homosexuality and Gay Marriage but had lied about his support against Gay Marriage interesting when even the world who hates the Bible and God would catch Rick Warren out for being a liar and a hypocrite.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/11/28/1250921/rick-warren-i-regret-coming-out-in-support-of-californias-anti-gay-marriage-proposition/

On Wednesday, conservative Evangelical Pastor Rick Warren expressed regret for instructing his congregation to support Proposition 8, California’s constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. During an interview with Huff Post Live’s Marc Lamont Hill, Warren attempted to downplay his endorsement of the provision, claiming that he intended to communicate his private support to church members and was not trying to take a “public” position on the issue. Warren expressed regret for ever backing the measure:

WARREN:  I never made a single statement on Prop 8 until the week before. In my own church, some members say, “Where do we stand on this?” I released a video to my own members. It was posted all over like it was an advertisement. […]

HILL: When you have a church of 20,000 people and you have a book that 32 million people have read and that 60 million people have accessed, to say, “I was just giving a message”—

WARREN: You’re exactly right, Marc, and I learned a lesson from that. What I learned from that is that anything I say privately is now public. And I actually learned from that mistake… Everyone took that to mean I was pontificating to the whole world.

A recent article criticised for making joke about kissing Elton John.

Warren-John

Elton John and Drag Queen RUPAUL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuPaul
 

Reuters:

Rick Warren and Elton John joked together before the Senate appropriations subcommittee on funding global health initiatives

Megachurch pastor Rick Warren and gay singer Elton John have formed an unlikely alliance in order to support AIDS relief before Congress, and urged the government not to cut down on AIDS funding.

“Everybody has a different role to play and the Church’s role is not government, and the government’s role is not Church. But on health issues, and on education issues and on development issues, you can team tackle,” Warren said.

The two made such a great team taking on global health issues that they smiled, laughed, and held hands as a show of unity, and later Warren reportedly joked about kissing John which he said would probably be “the kiss heard around the world.”

This really shows the fruit of Rick Warrens ministry after a long time of leading so many astray it is not surprising why the Victory Outreach takes the position it does this is a case of the blind leading the blind.

Photo courtesy Orange Country RegisterSouthern Baptist pastor Rick Warren will be a part of the ecumenical and interfaith gathering this September where Pope Francis himself is expected to appear.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/pope-francis-deep-ties-evangelicals

The National Reporter says Pope Francis’ has deep ties to evangelicals dated

When the World Meeting of Families announced its roster of speakers for its September meeting in Philadelphia, some were surprised to see Rick Warren’s name among the invitees.

Warren is one of the leading Christian evangelical voices in the United States, and the World Meeting of Families, which is sponsored by the Holy See’s Pontifical Council for the Family, is the world’s largest Catholic gathering of families.(….Cont)

This isn’t Pope Francis’ first encounter with conservative evangelical Christians. Back in March 2013, I reported on Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio’s popularity among Argentine evangelicals.

The day after his election, a headline at Christianity Today, a conservative Christian magazine, declared, “Argentine Evangelicals Say Bergoglio as Pope Francis is ‘Answer to our Prayers.‘ ”

The article wrote, “Relations between evangelicals and Catholics are much better in Argentina than in other Latin American nations. … Bergoglio has played a central role in Argentina’s CRECES (Renewal Communion of Catholics and Evangelicals in the Holy Spirit) movement over the past 10 years.” It also recounted Bergoglio’s deep support for the Argentine Bible Society.

A second Christianity Today article posted the day after Francis’ election offered an interview with Luis Palau, a leading evangelical preacher who immigrated to the United States from Argentina 50 years ago. (cont……)

(U.K.A.L Comment: I wish to note that Victory Outreach USA is an associate ministry for Luis Palau Ministries please click on the second image to view.)

luispalau1luispalau2

(cont……) Palau detailed his longstanding friendship with Bergoglio, saying, “With the evangelical community, it was a very big day when we realized that he really was open, that he has great respect for Bible-believing Christians, and that he basically sides with them.”

Question should be asked after 500 years why are Evangelicals such as Victory Outreach so desperate to come “home” to Rome under the Ecclesiastical Authority, namely the Vatican.

Victory Outreach and Kenneth Copeland

kenneth-copeland

http://victoryoutreach.org/acknowledgment/kenneth-copeland/

ecumenical gang pope-francis-orders-meets-with-kenneth-hagan-copeland-john-carol-arnott-catch-fire-toronto-pentacostal-charismatic
(RNS1-JULY 8) Kenneth Copeland prays with Pope Francis at the Vatican on June 24, 2014. For use with RNS-ROBISON-POPE transmitted July 8, 2014. RNS photo courtesy Kenneth Copeland Ministries

Some people will not see it a problem having Kenneth Copeland at Victory Outreach, perhaps Victory Outreach are spreading the same reconciliation with Rome message we have all been hearing about lately, but the problem is they do not consider what Kenneth Copeland is doing, he leading so many astray we know that Kenneth Copeland has given false teachings, false prophecies, promoted and lead the Toronto Blessing etc, On Jan. 21, 2014, Kenneth Copeland Ministries was blessed to receive a personal video message from Pope Francis. The attendees of KCM’s annual Ministers’ Conference were greatly inspired when presented the Pope’s greeting and a message he prepared video is below.

Victory Outreach is very much involved with Kenneth Copeland Ministries in 2012 Victory Outreach hosted a Kenneth Copeland event called The 21st Annual Eurospirit Convention.

copelandvo

Benny Hinn and Victory Outreach.

Sonny Arguinzoni the founder of Victory Outreach International has recieved an official endorsement from Benny Hinn, this is not surprising as Sonny Arguinzoni has had for a long time been apearing and supporting TBN, TBN is ecumenical as has had allot of controversy, Benny Hinn is a proven false prophet and a false teacher, VO does not mind giving the Vatican Council II their seal of aproval.

benny_hinn_papahinncatholic1

Benny Hinn “Oh, bless your heart! Well, it’s because of you ladies that I am what I am. See, you taught me about Jesus. You taught me the Bible. You taught about the Holy Spirit.
Thank God for Catholic sisters.”

…………………….

vohinnbenny-hinn-ministries

Click on images to enlarge images.

 

The Global Transformation of Redeeming Cultures

Victory Outreach are doing exactly what Ed Silverso created this article by Mike Oppenhiemer is exactly what groups like Victory Outreach aims to achieve.

The basis of the gospel message is about sin and man being reconciled to God through a savior that came through the Jewish people. Our commission by Jesus is to preach the gospel whenever we can to all people…Today we have various new concepts that neglect this and instead want to transform the culture like Ed Silvoso or the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) is promoting.

“A Church Growth Expert’s Observation s Observation” “We have attempted to transform our cities for years without success. I now believe the reason is because pastors and church leaders do not have the authority to do so. That authority lies within those leaders in the marketplace. When we recognize and affirm the apostles in the marketplace we will begin to see the transformation of cities.”

((quote of Peter Wagner,(Source: International coalition of workplace ministries)

All we have heard for years is that it is working! Now they blame it being unsuccessful because our leadership does not have the authority. This is the mixture of oil and water. Once again the trail leads back to them, without their new apostolic leadership the cities will not be transformed.

Silvoso is on a mission which takes him to different continents with the method of market transformation.

Within the new evangelistic package of making marketplace pastors, he is training people to move from the concept of pastoring the Local Church to pastoring a city. There is a clear theme of Dominionism running through this program, with kingdom authority and the use of “territorial spiritual warfare” employed. By uniting together using the various methods he presents Satan can be bound and the Christian forces triumph.

Silvosos’ paradigm is no different from many others that have come into the church before, it’s basically “rethinking everything into a new strategy.” Using the magic word of “transformation’ (a word originally found in theosophy of the New Age Movement) it has found itself as one of the many new platforms for “mission” strategies” now being employed by the New Apostolic Reformation.

Silvoso says: “Government and politics are areas where we are more reluctant to believe that transformation can really happen.”

Ed Silvoso’s books – Anointed For Business and Women: God’s Secret Weapon.

On November 29, two mayors and one congresswoman in three cities expressed before a crowd of 300 believers their appreciation for what our prayers did for their localities and for them personally. I firmly believe as we persevere in applying the principles outlined in Luke 10 to the marketplace (government, business and education) we will see the Philippines transformed in our lifetime.”

What principle? This was training for his disciples in Israel which occurred before Israel rejected him as their Messiah, it was never applied for the church in the book of Acts or taught in the epistles. But this is the main Scripture for their program to influence the business and government.

“In 1990 we prayed for young people to be protected as they ventured into the world to develop a career… Now we commission them to become politicians, CEOs, scientists and broadcasters, and the first fruits are evident. When asked about the future, a teenager stated confidently, “I will be the President of Argentina.” Another said, “I will change the economy of the nation to make it more fair.”

How is your spiritual stock today? Reap eternal dividends by taking the power and presence of God to the marketplace…

According to Romans 8:19 the entire creation is eagerly awaiting the manifestation of the children

of God. They are waiting for us and they want to know who we are. It is about time that we come out of our spiritual closet. The next time you go to work, declare “The Kingdom of God has arrived and the gates of Hades shall not prevail,” and begin to pray for and minister to everyone in your circle of influence until the place experiences transformation” (2004 Year-end Report Harvest Evangelism Ed & Ruth Silvoso).

Rom.8:19 is often used this way by those who hold to the Latter Rain teaching. But Silvoso takes this into a further misinterpretation, as if we reveal ourselves. But all one needs to do is read further for the Bible interpretation on this passage- it’s about the resurrection when we will be changed to immortality, not something we can do today, on your own.

Vv. 23-24: “Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?”

The gates shall not prevail against the church (Mt.16:18)- NOT the kingdom of God in the workplace. Yet he teaches that we are to take the Kingdom of God (the church?) to the gates of Hell (whatever that means). Silvoso like so many others who espouse Latter Rain teaching can’t seem to leave the Scripture in its context and change its meaning to fit their own personal made up doctrine to influence the masses. Its business as usual.

The error of the Latter Rain clearly being promoted by Silvoso is a figment of his own imaginary agenda of changing the landscape with his workplace program – starting with pastors in the workplaces of the communities. Rom. 8:19: “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.” When do the sons get revealed? When Jesus comes back not before, so how can this mean we subject the creation by our authority as Silvoso claims. What we are seeing is a new spiritual militant movement that wants to use their supposed kingdom authority on this earth before the King actually arrives.

Not everyone is involved in the Latter Rain belief of putting the culture under the authority of the church. Chuck Colson holds to a modified teaching of Reconstructionism and modern day dominionism to reform the culture, by taking the culture back: “Redeeming the culture is the never ending mission of the church (Chuck Colson Breakpoint Jan.2, 05, KLHT)’

“I was deepening my understanding of what we call the cultural commission, the command to the Church to take dominion and bring righteousness to our culture”

(Chuck Colson, God’s Inseparable Commissions, Prison Fellowship, 01/05/2005, http://www.pfm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=PFM_Site&temnlate=/CM/
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“Today-some 30 years into my ministry-I have come to believe passionately that all Christians need to take their faith out of the pews and into the trenches. We’ve got to be faithful to the cultural commission to have dominion, to work for Christian values to arrest our worldview slide” (Chuck Colson, Prison Ministry and Worldview: A Match Made in Heaven, Prison Fellowship, 08/29/2004,
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One of Colson’s ministries objective is to institute Christian laws into our government to shape America into a godly nation. But you can’t find these ideas of culture, or society in the Bible. In fact if one looks at how the early church handled their relationship with Rome it is nothing like what is being promoted today.

Jesus gave the great commission as His last words to the Church. He expects us to be doing this when He returns for the Church, not something else. Nowhere does the Bible teach the church is sent to reform or redeem the culture or make the world a better place for mankind. Why? Because that is what HE WILL DO when He returns. Why? Because He is the “only one” with the ability to do it correctly. Until then we have a mandate of preaching the gospel, and discipleship. Teaching people what He taught, not something he did not teach.

One of the new strategies to evangelize the nations, and crush Satan under your feet (referring to Rom. 16:20) is called Redeeming cultures. It goes by a number of different titles First Nations cultural evangelism cultural identification indigenous people movement-cultural redemption etc.

The belief that in every culture-God has left treasures and worthy traditions within the indigenous cultures to be used. We are told that redeeming the cultures reestablished people’s identity of who they are as nations and who God created them to be.

 Terry Leblanc: referring to David Garrett from Scripture and Songs said it this way:

“God is now calling forth from among the indigenous communities of the world that good deposit which He has made in them of their cultures, their languages, their musical expressions and all that sort of thing … as an expression of praise and worship unto Himself.” (Word to the World – host Danny Lehmann, KLHT, 2001)

To say God created these cultures, influenced them or deposited anything in them is the same as saying that these other religions had truth from God and worshipped Him (or her, or it) correctly.

The cultural redemption movement began mainly through Don Richardson books “The Peace Child” and “Eternity in Their Hearts” who proposed using redemptive analogies that are already found in cultures. Some of the ideas he presented were valid, some were not. Certainly there is advantage to indigenous people carrying the gospel to their own people but there is a disadvantage when one tries to make a connection to them by their own religion that is clearly not there in the first place. And instead of giving them the straightforward gospel it becomes a blend of their religion and the Bible to appease both parties. In the end the Christian gospel will be covered up with cultural traditions. The reason is because you cannot make a mixture like this have the gospel uncorrupted.

Is it appropriate to bring to people Jesus Christ through their own culture, and then leave them to worship God in their own cultures way. Did the apostles do this? The answer is No, but that is what is taking place today.

Richard Twiss one of the main promoters of “cultural redemption” states:

“…We’re introducing native leaders and native ministry organizations to the greater body of Christ by partnering with people like Don Richardson, John Dawson and George Otis …” (Interview- Richard Twiss, Word to the World with host Danny Lehmann, KLHT, 2001, show #547) this should settle any questions on whom these people are learning from and associating with. The majority are associates of YWAM and Dawson and Otis are involved in the NAR program of Transformation (i.e George Otis produced 2 films on global Transformation by spiritual warfare that are exaggerated and filled with proven inaccuracies. Otis jr. is part of Peter Wagners false apostolic reformation that is trying to change the way churches do things.)

“As disciples of Jesus Christ we are also called to redeem our culture as we grow in God” (YWAM DTS, Island Breeze, http://www.islandbreeze.com.au/training.htm)

Are we called to do this? If one thinks this is evangelism they a very much mistaken, this is far different from the evangelism done from the first century on down to our day.

One of the main promoters of this evangelism through YWAM is Daniel Kikawa who took Richardsons concepts to their extreme. He is telling the Church “The Creator God of the Bible is not a foreign God. He loves indigenous people and has been a part of their history and culture from the beginning.

Leon Siu:  “The misconceptions that, as was expressed earlier, was that God didn’t arrive until the missionaries arrived.  You know, and so when we started to look at this we started to look into our culture and see what things within our culture what God had originally intended for this particular group of people, Hawaiians.” (Interview with three of the leaders from the indigenous people’s movements around the world, Word to the World, 2001)

Sui works with Kikawa and both share the same viewpoint. On Kikawa’s video “God’s Fingerprints in Japan” Kikawa states Japan was worshipping the true God in the past accurately: “It makes perfect sense that the Japanese people would have this revelation of God.” Why? Because these men have a “world culture view,” that believes all is one, theirs is not a “Christian worldview.” In other words,this can also be applied to any culture since they interpret Rom.1 as all cultures in the past knowing the true God.

Here is how they represent what they are doing “The Lord God of Israel created all mankind in His own image. He separated us into different languages and dispersed us throughout the world. Our God gave to each people the knowledge and wisdom needed to survive in each place. His hand has always been present in each of our histories…. (Indigenous Expressions of Biblical Faith http://wcgip.org/)

It has? Where does the Bible say this? It is matter of opinion of a few that are promoting this to the church. In fact, the Bible says the opposite, all one has to do is look up in bible history to see how God related to the cultures of the world. Acts 14:16: “who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways.” He gave the world their basic needs but was not involved in any of the cultures development or ways. To one nation only did he say, “And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one nation on the earth whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people, to make for Himself a name– and to do for Yourself great and awesome deeds for Your land– before Your people whom You redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, the nations, and their gods?”

There is no other nation that God chose to deliver and give his commands and Scripture to.This claim of God being involved in everyone’s history completely opposes the Bibles teaching on mankind’s true history. Though there may be good intentions behind these ideas, many “Christians” are becoming involved in this new philosophical view that affects their Biblical worldview. This does not excuse the fact that they are wrong on their main premise. The assumption is that God formed ALL the nations, cultures (specifically) and purposely put things in their culture that are equal to what He did with Israel. This is simply is not so. There are enough Bible examples contrary to this to explain that God did not approve of these cultures in ancient Bible times and does not today. What is ironic is that they call him the Lord God of Israel. But then what they teach changes Him to the Lord God of all nation’s cultures and people who were defiant and did not know him.

There is not one nation, before Christ, other than Israel where God speaks of their culture or priesthood as worshipping Him correctly. The one nation he gave the instructions to, otherwise they were making it all up. Even Israel, with all the commandments given directly and supernaturally, being instructed by God, often fell into idolatry which was influenced by the other cultures around them. God had written in Deut: 18:9: “When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.”

Deut.12:30-32: “take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ “You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods.”

Some take the position that He revealed Himself at some point to nearly all indigenous people groups prior to the Gospel being brought to them. They believe that in every culture God has left treasures and worthy traditions within their cultures to be used. Thus when we bring Jesus Christ to people we can then leave them to worship God in their own cultural and religious ways as they did in the past. They Mix up concepts of God by using cultural history or methods to worship him.

“God loves the cultural expressions that flow from them. They are finding many things within that flow from their cultural identity that were ordained by God.” (Video God’s Fingerprints in Japan by aloha Ke Akua)

The idea that God put his truth in every culture through history, even with contradictory values and practices seems to be overlooked by these people.

Paul went through Asia – nation after nation was affected with his message and they gave up their gods and idols. But we are now being told to allow them to keep parts of their religion and the culture that is saturated by this false worship and turn into true worship, thus redeeming the culture.

Daniel Kikawa who was heavily influenced by Richardson states, we have “Startling Evidence of Belief in the One True God in Hundreds of Cultures Throughout the World,” claiming that hundreds of cultures in the world were already worshipping YHWH. Again this is revisioning actual history. Archeologists and historians know different.

Mankind’s history is not one of submission but rebellion. Not long after man was judged for his lawlessness he united together to build a tower of his own way to worship the creation, not God. God destroyed the world of Noah’s time except for his family; God did not redeem any culture. God scattered the people at the tower of Babel for their disobedience. And they did not take the truth with them but took their false worship with them to cover the whole earth. They left Babel worshipping their false gods, they left looking to the stars, and developed further their false religions.

God did not give people their cultural “identities” or form their cultures. He confused their tongues at Babel as a judgment upon their trying to unify themselves without him. They were sent them away to populate the earth and the people of each separate language group began to develop their own culture Romans 1 tells us that men did not seek God, they instead traded the general revelation they had of God for worship of created things (Rom. 1:25) and from that they formed their cultures religions. 

Can anyone find where the Bible teaches to redeem a culture? Before one accepts and implements this new methodology they need to think this through BIBLICALLY. Do they have to abandon their cultural identity in order to come to Christ or use it express their faith in Christ. Their culture needs to be reevaluated through God’s viewpoint and not mans reasoning.

We have only one example of a massive revival of a people, Jonah. Jonah’s message changed a whole city and turned a vicious culture away from its own destructive tendencies but it did not redeem the culture. There was nothing to draw from it. Instead they forsook their gods to worship the true and living god of Israel.

God did not send angles to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah and teach him how to improve living among the aggressive homosexual culture he was in, they took him out. God did not keep Israel in Egypt to restructure their worship or bring them under Israel’s blessings. God had no intention of sending Moses into Egypt to try to reform Egyptian society but to rescue Israel. God took Israel OUT from Egypt and destroyed their cultural identity with all their god’s. God destroyed many of the cultures surrounding Israel as He brought them into the Promised Land, he approved of NONE of them. We do not see a redeemed culture at any time in history and neither is He doing this today. So this whole concept cannot be validated by the Bible. This is made up theology and practice.

God was destroying cultures before Christ came, not redeeming them. In the flood he destroyed everything that had breath that did not enter the ark because of how far man went in his idolatry and disobedience to God.

And, He will do it again in the end as sin and lawlessness becomes like a flood- he will deal harshly with the wickedness of world in every culture and society.

Using redemptive analogy is justified as a valid method of evangelism. We are told the prophets and even Jesus used the technique in his story-telling by saying “The kingdom of God is like.” Jesus’ method of communication was story telling (orality), and he used redemptive analogy within story-telling. Thus presenting the Gospel in terms which relate to the particular culture it is valid to use that culture to .

This is where we get to the basement and foundation of this whole mater. These are Grand Canyon leaps performed by those involved in this type of evangelizing. What they completely miss is that Jesus was communicating to the culture he formed by giving the Oracles of God to over millennia, the types and shadows , of everything their religious life (and secular which was not separate) were used to explain the true teaching of the law and the Scriptures

They change the meanings of their own religion and synthesize it to Christianity. Wiconi International endorses Eagles Wings (Randy and Edith Woodley) that claims the Great Spirit’s son is Jesus Christ:

“Both Native Americans, their mission is “to present the Great Spirit’s Son, Jesus Christ and His Words, the Bible to Native Americans in culturally relevant ways.” (http://www.ethnicharvest.org/peoples/nativeamer.htm)

The Great Spirit who they claim created the earth, pervaded everything, this is not the Holy Spirit who is separate from the creation he produced.

We welcome Native Americans into the body of Christ like we should do to all people from everywhere people and every nation, but they need to know to leave their spiritual traditions behind and follow Jesus Christ as the Bible teaches, so they do not blend it with their ancient ways.

There is always a portion of the truth with error when these men promote their indigenous agenda. speaking of the apostles Richard Twiss says- Their worldview was too small they could not recognize the new thing that God was doing outside the box of their own cultural understanding so rather than rejoice that people were delivered out of the clutches of hell and sent into the kingdom they criticized Peter because he broke their religious and social and cultural traditions So God had to dismantle their old covenant orientation toward the kingdom, but here’s the problem for us. … yet because their worldview was too small they were born-again bigots. For Jesus, filled with power absolutely, anointing, completely but their worldview was too small.. He then tells the audience he will be with emergent church leader “Brian McLaren, equipping today’s church for tomorrows challenges…” (TBN Sept.27, 2005 Interview by Dwight Thomson).

I don’ think it is right to call the apostles bigots even if it is tongue in cheek. Besides ignoring the fact that it was God who led Peter to open the door for the Gentiles to be part of the Body of Christ (Acts 10). Who criticized Peter because he broke their religious and social and cultural traditions. Twiss has misrepresented the actual history making it seem that it was It the church

Acts 10:45 “And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.”

Acts 11:2 “And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him”

We find out whom those of the circumcision are, the same ones that tried to ruin the Galatian church the Judaizers.

Acts 15:5 “But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” In vv.11-12 the apostles gave testimony of God’s work among the gentiles.Acts 15:22: “Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas”

So we can see by the Scripture that a slight twist or wrong interpretation and one can make the apostles prejudice when they were not, it was the religious sect of the Pharisees that were. No doubt the church had to reconcile these matters and that is exactly why the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15 was for.

Many misuse Rev.7 “After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.”

They have taken this out of its context and made it a pretext to their own presuppositions. It’s talking about people taken FROM NATIONS-TRIBES, THOSE OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. It does not say whole cultures, societies or nations. They are individuals from these various groups who have believed in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. 

To redeem, (redemption) in the biblical sense means to be brought back from a slaves marketplace. What we find is that God redeems individual people. Each person is spiritually born by making a personal choice in the gospel.

The Biblical concept of redeeming does not mean what these movements say it does. Nowhere does this imply that a culture had portions of true worship God put there and He was no going to bring them into a fuller understanding of what they already had. They did not have anything.

They use the word reconciling in a secular sense and remove it from its biblical definition. Reconciliation comes one way only

Rom. 5:10: “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,

Now that we are reconciled by the crucifixion the gospel, we are to bring it to others.

2 Cor. 5:18-20: “Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.”

What is that word? The gospel which has to do with men’s trespasses- their sins. Not with a nation, a belief system, political or religious.

Reconciliation is in Greek katallage-exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:

KJV– atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

The same thing is for the word redemption Greek- exagorazo-1) to redeem a) by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, to buy off b) metaphorically, used of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death 2) to buy up, to buy up for oneself, for one’s use to make wise and sacred use of every opportunity for doing good, so that zeal and well-doing are as it were the purchase money by which we make the time our own.

redemption -lutroo- 1) to release on receipt of ransom 2) to redeem, to liberate by payment of ransom a) to liberate b) to cause to be released to oneself by payment of a ransom c) to redeem d) to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external.

Rom. 3:24: “the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,” How, by the blood shed by the sinless son of God. As it says in Eph 1:7: “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, (also Col.1:14)

In the New Testament only people who believe the gospel are redeemed, there are no whole nations redeemed.

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” If you as a missionary go to a tribal group anywhere in the world and find that they are worshipping a god, you would not say, “I’m going to tell you who YOUR god is”—or the “good things that he has left you in your culture”–that’s not a biblical approach to evangelism. This completely different from saying, “Let me tell you who the true God is” showing them the difference and encouraging them to abandon the false gods and ways that they’ve been worshipping. Working with them patiently as they discover what they are doing is wrong. This was the approach of the apostles, i.e. Paul to the Gentiles. This was the approach of missionaries. I agree that sometimes the culture of the missionaries was sometimes brought into the conversion. Sometimes it was for good reason, (i.e. dressing up in western clothes than to continue walking around naked) other times it was mistakenly part of the package. We are to make a distinction between the religious and social aspects of a culture. One is neutral the other is not.

Deut 12:2-5: “You shall utterly destroy all the places where the nations which you shall dispossess served their gods, on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree. “And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. “You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things.” The Bible principle is made clear, do not use the former religious practices or items for worship to the true God.

In Joshua 7:10-12 Israel sinned, by taking the accursed things and put it among their own. V.12: “Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they have become doomed to destruction. Neither will I be with you anymore, unless you destroy the accursed from among you.” Joshua 7:21 tells us it was “a beautiful Babylonian garment, two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels”

Israel would be ensnared with pagan items and practices. Many purposely ignore this fact because it goes contrary to the new syncretistic evangelism that is being used. God did not give Israel one way and various other ways to the nations. In fact the bible is clear, he only picked Israel as the nation to be the recipient of his laws and ways.

Deut. 18:9-14: “When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.” Deut. 12:2-4 Israel was to destroy all the places where the nations served their gods, v.4 “You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things.”

We do not see God’s approval of adopting any nation’s customs into Judaism or Judaism into their customs and we should not adopt this idea into the church. There was to be no syncretism for Israel or the church.

When a false religious belief becomes ingrained in a culture, that culture cannot be redeemed, it needs to be abandoned for the truth.

If these things of other cultures were incorporated in their religious practices they were not to be carried into the worship of Yahweh, the people were to be holy. Judgment was severe Josh. 7:15: ‘Then it shall be that he who is taken with the accursed thing shall be burned with fire.” Just like they burned their magic books in Act 19 when they were saved, they abandoned what was not of God. But today the line is blurred and the indigenous people are being told that what they have is of God. Hardly the truth.

Terry Lebanc says,”There’s a myth that we have labored under for centuries in indigenous communities and the myth is that we are a godless heathen people” (Word to the World Interview by Danny Lehmann 2001).

Actually the ancient people practiced myths and did not have the truth. Who said so? God did. 1 Cor. 1:21: “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom DID NOT KNOW GOD, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.” The message the gospel needs to be heard in its pure form, not tainted with a cultural genre or ancient traditions.

John 1:9-11: “That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.”

Notice how this is worded, the world did not know him, and Israel did not receive him.

A Bible Smorgasbord

Ps 119:104-105: “Through Your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.”

To make inroads to a culture there are those who have taken the liberty to change the word of God by adding that cultures (or religion or countries) gods name. Or they ignore the word for word translation and substitute a culturized version of their language and customs, this is not a biblical way to do evangelism. Now we have bibles that tell stories more than give us what God spoke as our instruction for living a spiritual life pleasing unto him.

Consider what they did here in Hawaii with a new translation of the Bible by Wycliffe Bible Translators.

Gospel of John Tell bout Jesus

1:1 Da time everyting had start, had one Guy. “God’s Talk,” dass who him. Dat Guy an God, dey stay togedda, an da Guy stay God fo real kine. 2 Dass da Guy, da time everyting had start, him an God stay togedda. 3 God wen make every­ting, but da way he do um, he tell dis Guy fo do um. No mo notting dis Guy neva make.

14 Dat “God’s Talk” Guy, he wen come one guy jalike us guys. He wen stay wit us. We wen see how awesome he stay awesome, cuz he da one an ony Boy dat come from dadda. He like do plenny good stuff fo us, cuz dass how he stay. Everyting he say bout God, stay fo real. (Da Jesus Book p244 pidgin Bible- year 2000)

Can you see the reverence in one of the most important passages on his deity and incarnation diminished and belittled.

Gal.1:6-9 You guys blow my mind! Quick time you guys pau trus God an go trus odder kine stuff. God wen pick you guys cuz he like Christ fo do plenny good kine stuff fo you guys. But you guys go trus odder kine stuff awready. 7 Da kine odder stuff dey teach, dass not da Good Kine Stuff Bout Christ. Dem guys like change da Good Kine Stuff Bout Christ. Dey ony stay jam up you guys. 8 Listen! Even if us guys o one angel guy from da sky tell you guys odder kine stuff, diffren from da Good Kine Stuff From God dat we wen teach you guys befo, God goin punish um foeva. 9 Jalike we wen tell you guys befo, I goin say urn one mo time: Whoever teach you guys diffren kine stuff den da Good Kine Stuff From God dat you guys wen take from us, God goin punish um foeva. (Pidgin Bible p. 500)

Somehow the meaning and seriousness of the passage is lost.

I also looked at key passages of his deity

Phil.2:5  All you guys, tink lidis, jalike Jesus Christ: 6 Jesus, he everytime stay jalike God. But no matta,

He neva tink he gotta go hang on to dat. 7 He let um all go, So he can make himself one poor worka guy, An come jalike peopo. Wen da peopo see him, Dey figga he jus one guy.

8 He wen make himself jalike he no stay importan. He wen do everyting God say, Even if he gotta go mahke. An not jus regula kine mahke, you know. Was mo worse, on top one cross.

9 Dass why God make Jesus da main Guy. He wen give him one spesho name, Fo tell wat kine guy him. Cuz he mo importan den all da big name guys!

10 So everybody, wen dey find out wat kine guy Jestis, Dey goin go down on dea knees in front him. Everybody up dea inside da sky, An all ova da world, An undaneat da groun!

11 Wit dea mout, everybody goin tell, “Jesus Christ, da Spesho Guy God Wen Send, He da Boss!” Cuz a dat, peopo goin say,”God da Fadda, he awesome fo shua!”

We are to become more educated when we are believers; this is perpetuating a slang language which does not help one understand the HOLY WORD of GOD. If this is where the Bible translations are headed, we need to speak up before this becomes a normal use in our evangelistic efforts.

Here is another example that is disheartening. David Marshall gives a story of his way (tao)

“I was coming into contact with another religious culture in its most traditional and ancient form, one that had nothing to do with the Western God, and wanted to have nothing to do with Him. It was a revival of Chinese worship of Heaven that went back thousands of years, and had been enacted in a grand way upon an altar on Mount Tai in Shandong Province, long before the time of Confucius, and the great Jewish prophets. 

The building should have been as alien to me as anything on earth. (Apart from the Douglas firs.) Yet it shocked me with its familiarity. The four gold and red inside pillars reminded me of four gold-leafed, red-letter-edition Gospels. The twelve red outside pillars seemed to suggest the twelve patriarchs and twelve apostles of the Bible — symbolized in Christian writings by pillars sprinkled with blood. The twelve tribes of Israel, too, had been arranged in four groups around the Tabernacle and the Holy of Holies.”

“the more I have studied non-Christian cultures and beliefs of various cultures and periods, the more I have become persuaded that the truth is just the opposite. Jesus is the Tao that Confucius and Lao Zi were looking for, the Rta of Indian philosophers or Purusa of the Rig Veda, the Divine Logos of St. the Apostle John. John’s famous words about that Logos are correctly translated as follows in Chinese: “In the beginning was the Tao. And the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God. . . All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. .” 

And then, as if to wake all the philosophers and day-dreamers among us up: 

“And the Tao became flesh and dwelt among us.” 

(How I Learned Jesus Is the Tao By David Marshall http://www.homestead.com/christthetao/learned.html)

Much of what Marshall says is interpreted as subjective and personal and finds a correlation when there really is none and has no basis in history or reality. The fact that many of these emergent writers have a whole different angle in seeing the Bible and culture and reinterpret it in whatever way they think is best for those they want to connect with. This concept makes Jesus the everything for everyone.

Consider this found in Chinese Bibles, the “Logos” is translated to “Tao. in John 1:1-2: “In the beginning was the Tao. and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God… The Tao became flesh and dwelt among us”

To quote the passage on the deity of Christ and his eternal relationship with the Father as the Tao tells me that this person neither knows about the Tao and even less about the Scriptures meaning. To do such a rendition of the Bible is absurd. But nothing is off-limits to these “cultural change agents.” This is merging to belief systems to make them sympathetic to each other. They relate it to the Greek philosophers Heraclitus, Socrates that held to the logos being abstract and impersonal. John is using a Hebraism. John wrote his gospel in Greek used Greek words for Jewish concepts not Hellenistic. This Word is a title for the Son of God who possesses the very same nature as the Father. What John was doing was explaining the true meaning of logos compared to the Greek writers. The common term in the Old Testament for “word” is dabhar (used in the Septuagint). “In Hebrew thought, the dabar was dynamic and filled with a power that was transmitted to those who received it. The term was often used to designate God’s communication to his people, as at the beginning of many of the writings of the prophets: “The word of the Lord came.” The whole of the Law, or all of Scripture, could then be referred to as God’s Word. (Holman Bible Dictionary LOGOS)

Clearly if they do not have the same words of the Bible delivered from God then the Tao is not the same Word who was made flesh. If the god of the nations is the same God then certainly this would be evident by more than a few similarities (As Romans 1 says they have corrupted portions left).

Tao means Way, and it is left for the seeker to discover within. Lao Tzu wrote “The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.” The Tao is an impersonal Supreme — there exist lesser divinities, it is the oneness of all creation, in the spirituality of the material realms and in the brotherhood of all men.

Taoism is concerned with man’s spiritual being, and in the Tao, te-Ching the awakened man is compared to bamboo: upright, simple and useful outside-and hollow inside. The knowable universe is composed of opposite components, physical (hard/soft; dark/light), moral (good/bad), or biological (male/female), which are classed as either YANG or YIN. Thus two opposing forces make up the whole.

To say the word –is the Son, which the Bible says has no darkness is the Tao, should be repulsive to Bible believers who want to do real evangelism, but this kind of new Christianity is being embraced and taught through numerous missionary organizations. I was told once in a correspondence with someone using Tarot cards to evangelize that what we are doing is old and passe’ and is being replaced. Replaced by what?

Christ never attempted to reform the culture of His day neither did he instruct the Apostles to do so. They “turned the world upside down” (Acts 17:6) by preaching the gospel to people of many different cultures. Redeem a culture? Why do something the Bible says nothing about and think you are doing evangelism.

In the endeavor to redeem cultures the work of the Holy Spirit is put aside and a reliance on human ingenuity and methods is instead used. This essentially compromises the Spirit of truths’ work. God is not unable to save the same way He did from the beginning, he does not need us to improve on his methods or ways – we only need to speak what he has told us. If we exercise faith and allow the Spirit of truth to work we will see the results we desire and will not have to opt for these made up methods of man.

This very idea is promoted through the themes of Victory Outreach aims to achieve this, according to Ed Silverso’s website:

[quote] “In the first part of this decade, people were moved, they believe by God, to stand up and be a part of the solution in the Salinas community, but before they could do that their hearts had to be changed. Most people, including Christians, see themselves as powerless in the face of the negative social and economic trends that were overwhelming the city of Salinas. As Ed Silvoso articulates so well in his books Anointed for Business and Transformation, if believers will step out of the walls of their churches and homes and into every facet of the city, including government, education, the arts, business and agriculture knowing they are empowered by the Holy Spirit to effect lasting change, significant things can happen. Sparked by a variety of events, pastors and marketplace leaders in the city of Salinas came together and realized for the first time their collective role as spiritual leaders in the community. The old paradigm of powerlessness began to pass away and a new message of community transformation took root in its place. One of the marketplace leaders who has been used significantly to spark the current flame of reformation was Dick Renard. In autumn of 2004, at the invitation of Mr. Renard several community leaders such as the mayor, chief of police, local business people and educators came together to pray for the city. They agreed to meet regularly to lift the city up spiritually, something they had been negligent in doing for so long. After coming together and believing for change in the city, they began to connect with local pastors and vocational ministers who welcomed their efforts with open arms.

The unity felt among those who wanted to bring positive change to the city spread to other individuals and institutions. For example, in the spring of 2007, two ministries with similar names and locations were brought together for the first time. Victory Mission and Victory Outreach sit a mere three blocks away from each other, and yet until Christians in Salinas came together and adopted a vision for transformation and unity, the agencies’ resources had not been fully utilized. What took place was a networking of 16 at-risk/transition agencies that could now share strength and resources, giving them a greater ability to serve the community of Salinas so that no one would fall through the cracks.”

These very themes in Victory Outreach is clearly outlined in an Evangelical Alliance Magazine it states:

eapage_1  page_28page_29

 

 

 

 

“unity is often hard, but demonstrates something of the character of Christ. “Unity is really important because we’re one body. Jesus said that by this people will know that we are his disciples. When people don’t love one another or we don’t accept each other or we don’t live it, people won’t believe it. There are some core things that we all believe.”

The themes of the New Apostolic reformation resented in Paul Lloyd’s contribution to this theme as stated:

“But this is a city in transition. It’s a very interesting place to be right now. We’re seeing people become Christians all the time, every week. The good thing is that the churches are co-operating with each other.”

The unity resulted in the churches coming together in 2011 to host Party in the Park – an outreach event at Buile Hill Park. “If you change the spiritual atmosphere in the city, the church will grow. That’s God’s economy. Jesus hasn’t got many churches. We are one church.

Victory Outreach is one of the groups connected to Gather Global, Gather Global Conference report was featured in the Evangelical Alliance magazine, Paul Lloyd was one of featured Pastors promoting the same idea of Social transformations and ecumenical unity.

gather1

The whole teaching of Transformation runs though Gather’s website:

gatheraboutWe offer teaching through articles and seminars that encourage best practice and innovative ways of building unity, mission and social and cultural transformation together.

  • We encourage shared practice and the telling of stories from across the nation as an encouragement and stimulus for other cities and towns to follow.
  • We host a website that shows where unity movements have been formed and offer links to contacts for churches wanting to join them.
  • We offer links to partnership organisations that work with churches in towns and cities in missional contexts.
  • We encourage new and innovative ways for working together for the transformation of our towns and cities through civic gospel initiatives with borough councils, business, media, health, arts as well as through the local church.

GATHER is a collaboration of unity movements across the UK, served and enabled by the Evangelical Alliance.

The Answer to this is simply not Scriptural the Victory Outreach is well on board with the belief in the Global Transformation of Redeeming Cultures that it agrees upon recognition that the Roman Catholic Church along with any one who join in agreement to Rome’s plan to bring us back into full communion with Peter is to an accepted practice with in the evangelical churches is what the body of Christ is made up of.

That the doctrines, dogma’s, practices and teachings with in the catholic context is to be accepted on the bases of deep mutual respect for our differences that we can move forward together with the Vatican to represent the gospel, it is the reason for all this is simply apart from strong feelings on the part of both Protestant and Catholics, the agenda on the part of the Pontiff is that the Roman Catholic Church seeks unity of all Christians during 2012 in other words all Christians must be Catholic.

Pope Benedict XVI released an “apostolic” letter, Porta Fidei,  proclaiming the Year of Faith for 2012.

Starting Oct. 11, 2012 through Nov. 24,2012, the church will focus of world-wide Christian unity.  The dates are signifigant. Oct. 11th is the 50th anniversary of  Vatican II. Nov. 24th the Roman Catholic church celebrates the feast of Christ the King.

The Vatican state that 2012 should be  “a propitious occasion to make Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church more widely and deeply known.”

2012  will include the following initiatives:

  • [6] At the worldwide level, Pope Benedict will preside at a solemn opening celebration for the “Year of Faith”. The Vatican plans special ecumenical efforts, pushing toward Christian unity, including “a solemn ecumenical celebration in which all of the baptized will reaffirm their faith in Christ.
  • At the national level, episcopal conferences will be encouraged to focus on “the quality of catechesis,” and to ensure that the teaching of the faith is in “complete conformity with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The bishops’ conferences will be strongly encouraged to use all available media outlets to promote that goal.

  • At the diocesan level, the CDF calls for “renewed creative dialogue between faith and reason in the academic and artistic communities,” and for penitential celebrations, with a particular emphasis on asking
    God’s forgiveness for sins against the faith. At the parish level, the Year of Faith should be centered on the community liturgy, and specially the Eucharist, the CDF says. All other initiatives should be based on that foundation.

It looks like they have boots on the ground.

Has the Roman Catholic church changed in it’s desire to make the world Catholic? No. The Office of Inquisition continues it’s PR push for world domination. The Vatican will be pushing hard for ecumenical unity this year. She will attempt more dialogue with the artistic and intellectual communities but especially non-Catholic Christians. The church will conduct penance services that ask God to forgive those against the Catholic faith.

Many denominations and churches will participate in these ecumenical services, blurring the lines of truth and putting a veil over the Gospel.

Nothing the Vatican or world leaders attempt has not first passed through the hands of our Sovereign God, who works all thing for good for those who love Him. These things must take place before He returns.

Next will explain why the RCC is so keen on working alongside non-Catholic churches and the separated brethren for the purpose of achieving the Counter Reformation bringing in the separated brethren back into the RCC as full members.

Rome’s objective is very clear quote Vatican Council II Volume 1 THE CONCILIAR AND POST CONCILIAR DOCUMENTS published by the Vatican Press

Decree on Ecumenism it all starts on co-belligerency and the post-modernist way of a common ground with respect to the RCC.

[p468] “…..one should recognize that between these churches and ecclesial communities, on the one hand, and the Catholic Church on the other, there are very weighty differences not only of a historical, sociological, psychological and cultural character, but especially in the interpretation of revealed truth.

To Facilitate entering into the ecumenical dialogue in spite of those differences, we wish to set down in what follows some considerations which can, and indeed should serve as a bases and encouragement for such a dialogue. (This is to achieve unity)

A use of a twisting of scriptures on moral issues concerning issues of Marriage etc…..

[p470] And if in moral matters there are many Christians who do not always understand the Gospel in the same way as Catholics, and do not admit the same solutions for the more difficult problems of modern society, the nevertheless want to cling to Christ’s word as the source of Christian virtue and to obey the command of the Apostle: Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. Hence the Ecumenical dialogue could start with the moral application of the gospel.

Rome’s position of the gospel is papal supremacy is over biblical supremacy the Catholic Sacrament’s are a rejection of the Gospel according to their own doctrines.

Catholic Catechism, par. 1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification [burning in Purgatory, perhaps for millions of years], so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

Catholic Catechism, par. 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture [actually, the Apocrypha]: ‘Therefore Judas Maccabeus made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.‘ [2 Maccabees 12:46] From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. [Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.] The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them. [St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. Job 1:5.]

Catholic Catechism, par. 1129 claims that the work of participating in the Catholic sacraments is necessary for salvation.

The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.51 “Sacramental grace” is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature52 by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior

Catholic Catechism, par. 1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance. ‘An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.’ [Paul VI, apostolic constitution, Indulgentiarum doctrina, Norm 1.] ‘An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.’ [Indulgentiarum doctrina, Norm 2; Cf. Norm 3.] Indulgences may be applied to the living or the dead.

Contrary to John 19:30 and Hebrews 10:11-12 Catholic teaching rejects the all sufficient of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.

In this the ecumenists would have us over look these teachings in favour of common ground and not taking into consideration that the Church of Rome has damming doctrines cannot be considered Christian as it does not represent nor recognise Biblical teaching and Rome’s its very subtle agenda to get us to weaken our stance on these issues Rome would have us dialogue away this offence and come under ecumenical unity bringing non-Catholic Christians back into the Church of Rome.

Rome’s Decree on Ecumenism continues quote from Vatican Council II Volume 1 THE CONCILIAR AND POST CONCILIAR DOCUMENTS published by the Vatican Press

My Critique of the following as the statements made are based on my own opinion.

[p470] This sacred Council firmly hopes that the initiatives of the sons of the Catholic Church, joined with those of the separated brethren, will go forward, without obstructing the ways of divine Providence, without prejudging the future inspirations of the Holy Spirit. Further, this Council declares that it realizes that this holy objective—the reconciliation of all Christians in the unity of the one and only Church of Christ (RCC)—transcends human powers and gifts. It therefore places its hope entirely in the prayer of Christ for the Church, in the love of the Father for us, and in the power of the Holy Spirit. “And hope it does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured forth in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us” (Rom 5:5).

[p470] 21. “This change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name, ‘Spiritual Ecumenism’ “ (Decree on Ecumenism, n. 8)

In these few words the decree deflines spiritual ecumenism and stresses its importance in order that Christians may, both in prayer and in celebration of the Eucharist and indeed in their entire daily life, through restoring whole Christian life according to the spirit of the Gospel, as has been taught by the Second Vatican Council–leaving out nothing of the common Christian heritage. (Cf. Decree Activity, n. 36).

22. It is fitting that prayers for unity be offered regularly at fixed times, for example:

(d) Easter, when all Christians (inc, RC’s) share with one another the joy of Our Lord’s resurrection;
(e) on the occasion of meetings or other important events of ecumenical origin or specially likely to serve ecumenical purposes.   

[p492] Directory On Ecumenism

“It is a recognized custom for Catholics to meet for frequent recourse to prayer for the unity of the Church with which the Savior himself on the eve of his death so fervently appealed to his Father ‘That they may all be one’” (Decree on Ecumenism, n. 8). Therefore, let all pray for unity in a way constant with Christ’s prayer at the Last Supper: that all Christians may achieve “that fullness of unity which Jesus Christ wishes.”

This is gross blasphemy and an abomination statements made by the Vatican to even side with enemies of the cross and those who hold to another gospel, as true evangelical Christians of the cross we need to stand strong against any unity with Rome and remain separate even from those who call us their brothers in Christ and would encourage us to weaken our position as this will get us to deviate from the scriptures, this is a trap.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This is exactly what is going on here we must be aware that the Spirit of Anti-Christ is not only at work in the world but it also at work through the Roman Catholic Church the following below will show how the spirit of anti-Christ is more so at work in the churches and leading many into the great apostasy of
2 Thessalonians 2.

[p494] Vatican statement B. Prayer in Common

  1. In certain special circumstances, such as prayer services ‘for unity’ and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly a very effective means of petitioning for the grace of unity, and they are a genuine expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren” (Decree on Ecumenism, n. 8).
  2. It is to be hoped that Catholics and their other brethren will join in prayer for any common concern in which they can and should cooperate—e.g., peace, social justice, mutual charity among men, the dignity of the family, and so on. The same maybe said of occasions when according to circumstances a nation or community wishes to make a common act of thanksgiving or petition to God, as on a national feast day, at a time of public disaster or morning, on a day set aside for remembrance of those who have died for their country. This kind of prayer is also recommended so far as is possible at times when Christians hold meetings for study or common action.

(a) Representatives of the churches or communities concerned should agree and cooperate in arranging such prayer—in deciding who should take part, what themes, hymns, scripture readings, prayers and the like should be used.

[p1000] Church in the Modern World

Such a mission requires us first of all to create in the Church itself mutual esteem, reverence and harmony, and acknowledgement all legitimate diversity; in this way all who constitute the one people of God will be able to engage in ever more fruitful dialogue, whether they are pastors or other members of the faithful. For the ties in which unite the faithful together are stronger than those which separate them:

At the same time our thoughts go out to those brothers and communities not yet living in full communion with us; yet we are united by the worship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and the bonds of love. We are also mindful that the unity of Christians is today awaited and longed for by many non-believers. For the more this unity is realised in truth and charity under the powerful impulse of the Holy Spirit, the more it will be a harbinger of unity and peace throughout the whole world. Let us, then, join our forces and modify our methods in a way suitable and effective today for achieving this lofty goal, and let us pattern ourselves daily more and more after the spirit of the Gospel and work together in the spirit of brotherhood to serve the human family with has been called to Christ Jesus the family of the sons of God.

We can see from the statements that the non-Catholics by the masses who claim to be evangelical but are ecumenical are dragging hoards of Christian into the Roman Catholic Church.

[p1004] The Encyclical Letter Ecclesiam suam speaks of three kinds of groups in dialogue in terms of three concentric circles, of varying sizes: first, all mankind, many of whom profess no religion, then those who profess non-Christian religions and lastly our brothers and sisters who are not Catholics. In order to institute dialogue with these three categories of people, Paul VI set up three secretariats: one for the promotion of Christian unity, another for non-Christians and third for unbelievers.

[p1005] I. ON THE NATURE AND CONDITIONS OF DIALOGUE

Dialogue is of greater importance and is more difficult when it takes place between people of different and even sometimes opposing opinions. They try to dispel each other’s prejudiced opinions and to increase, as much as they are able, consensus between themselves.

Their objective maybe simply interrelationships between men, the search for truth, or cooperation in some activity.

[p1012] (f) It is to be hoped that true ecumenical cooperation between Catholics and other Christians would be instituted both nationally and internationally.

(g) It would be hoped that such cooperation would be forthcoming between Christians and members of non-Christian religions, especially Jews and Muslims.

Vatican Council II

Volume 2 More Post Conciliar Documents.

[p156] The Ecumenical movement is a movement of the Spirit wider than any of the particular initiatives through which it is manifested. This ecumenical impulse, which for the Catholic Church is necessarily guided by the principles set forth in the Decree on Ecumenism and the Ecumenical Directory, seeks a great variety of expressions and structural forms and the purpose of this document is to look at some of the more prominent of these. As the Catholic Church in each country becomes more aware of the manifestations of ecumenism in various parts of the world, it has to avoid isolationism and slavish imitation of other places. Ecumenism initiatives must be adapted to local needs and will therefore differ from region to region, while always remaining in harmony with the bonds of Catholic communion. Further, the quest for a structural local unity is a challenge, but so is equality is for a qualitative unity in the confession of a sound and complete faith. Ecumenical initiatives should be a true expressions of the life of the local church, and not simply the work of individuals. It is important that ecumenical commissions should consider such local initiatives with discernment and sympathy and where appropriate offer encouragement and support.

[p157] The Catholic Understanding of the Local Church and Its Relation To The Ecumenical Movement.

Not only do the local churches direct and assume responsibility for the work of local ecumenism in communion with the Holy See but in the local churches the mysteries of ecclesial communion (baptism, faith in Christ, the proclamation of the Gospel, etc.)
are celebrated and thus constantly renewed, and they are the basis of ecumenical collaboration. This collaboration is served by a number of organized bodies some of which will be served by a number of organized bodies some of which will be mentioned later. It much also be borne in mind that at the present time a good number of Christians prefer to work locally in “informal” groups of a more spontaneous nature than in institutional or “formal” Groups.

Individual bishops are the visible, fundamental principle of unity in their particular churches. These churches are moulded to the likeness of the universal Church; in them, and of them, consists the one, sole Catholic Church. For this reason individual bishops represent their own church; all, together with the Pope, represent the whole Church linked by peace, love and unity (Lumen Gentium, 23).

[p158] Within these regions the other Christian churches and ecclesial communities often have the highest level of the churchly authority whereby they make those decisions which direct their life and shape their future. Therefore, the local church or several local churches in the territory of an episcopal conference or a synod can be in a very favourable position to make contact and establish fraternal relations with other Christian churches and communities at these levels.

In other words by this statement they want us all to be brought to Rome and for the masses to be Roman Catholic.

Ecumenical Collaboration.

[p165] As the Catholic Church engages its full energies in the serious effort for integral human development it works with all men of good will and especially with other Christian churches and ecclesial communities. Hence in particular situations it has been found appropriate to set up joint organizations to study and promote understanding of true human rights, to question those things which frustrate them and to promote initiatives which will secure them. There are organizations which enable Christians of various confessions to work with people of other faiths for common goals of social justice.

[p167] In certain places the heads of local churches or ecclesial communities meet regularly, sometimes having a permanent “continuation committee”. Through their meetings they exchange information about their activities and concerns, share insights and explore areas of possible collaboration and even set on foot appropriate action. It is understood that the heads of communions have to agree on each occasion of collaboration about the extent to which they can commit the members of their particular body. The usefulness of such groups in certain circumstances has been proved beyond dispute.

COUNCILS OF CHURCHES AND CHRISTIAN COUNCILS

These organizations date in some form from the beginning of the 20th century as a means of ensuring cooperation. As they have developed they have come to promote the collaboration of various churches or groups in social projects and now see themselves as servants of the ecumenical movement in its search for a greater measure of unity.

Because of their importance we are going to consider them at a greater length in the next Chapter.
 
We have seen what the RCC clear agenda is; when the majority in the evangelical world are very evasive in this area we simply cannot encourage anyone who would promote ecumenical initiatives of any sort.

Consider this scripture “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them” (Romans 16:17).

Logo

Victory Outreach, Gather Global and the Emergent Church.

The Term Missional is emergent this term has been promoted by Victory Outreach and also by Gather Global:

GATHER is a national network of vibrant missional unity movements in villages, towns, cities and boroughs

The question is can bible believing Christians pray together with Roman Catholics, Methodists, Greek Orthodox etc…. for unity the answer is in the scriptures can truth and error mix if the answer is yes then you will have to totally be unfaithful to God.

Galations 5 teaches us all about ‘A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.’ some one put it across really well on the sermon index site:

“Truth mixed with error is equivalent to all error, except that it is more innocent looking and, therefore, more dangerous. God hates such a mixture! Any error, or any truth-and-error mixture, calls for definite exposure and repudiation. To condone such is to be unfaithful to God and His Word and treacherous to imperiled souls for whom Christ died. Exposing error is most unpopular work, but from every true standpoint it is worthwhile work. To our Savior, it means that He receives from us, His blood-bought ones, the loyalty that is His due. To ourselves, if we consider ‘the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt,’ it ensures future reward, a thousand fold. And to souls ‘caught in the snare of the fowler’–how many of them God only knows–it may mean light and life, abundant and everlasting.”

It is scriptural to state that the mixture between Ecumenism, its organisation and liberal leaders is a deadly mix to the body of Christ.

The term missional is around 10 years old it has been a term rooted in the emergent church according to Patheos

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tonyjones/2013/02/20/some-honest-talk-about-labels-emergent-missional-etc/

“I’ve written before about the term “missional.” It bends a lot of ways. It’s a term that basically anyone can use for whatever purpose they want — from a stalwart Southern Baptist neocon like Ed Stetzer to an Anabaptist pacifist like David Fitch. And then you’ve got the neo-con Barthian camp like Darrell Guder and John Franke. They’re all “missional,” and so are a dozen churches planting networks like TransForm, Forge, and the Parish Collective.”

So here’s a test. Imagine a Christian leader saying this: “I’m not missional.”

No one’s going to say that. Not a PC (USA) pastor, and not a PCA pastor. Not a just-war Augustinian, and not an Anabaptist pacifist. Scot McKnight will say he’s missional, and so will Brian McLaren. So will the pope. So will I.

You might say you’re not Presbyterian or you’re not emergent. But you’re not going to say that you’re not missional.

Meanwhile, we all know that the term “emergent” has been redefined by conservatives. As hard as we tried to use it as an open-ended term for an ongoing theological conversation, the theological police jumped up and down screaming that “emergent = liberal” that people started to believe it. Publishers, for instance, once loved the term; they now want nothing to do with it.

So my prediction is that people will keep using the term “missional” and defining it in their own ways. And I think that’s fine. But let’s all remember that with such a broad term that “missional” — like “evangelical,” or even “Christian” — what it really means lies in the definition of the speaker, and the interpretation of the hearer.

http://www.cicministry.org/commentary/issue116.htm

Bob DeWaay’s book The Emergent Church – Undefining Christianity. We publish it here because the terminology and concept of missional have spread throughout evangelicalism. Christians need to be warned that being “missional” has nothing to do with the fulfilment of the Great Commission.

Almost universally, people involved with the Emergent “conversation” espouse one theme: they consider themselves to be missional. Being “missional” is not what traditional Christians have known as “missions.” We have believed that the Christian mission was to send people with the message of the gospel to places where the gospel had not been heard—to preach it and establish churches. As Christianity became established in various cultures, other Christian workers usually came to establish schools, hospitals, and perform other practical expressions of Christian love and mercy. This is not what Emergent thinkers have in mind when they describe themselves as “missional.”

For one thing, the description above started with the idea of the gospel as defined in the Bible. The Emergent mission does not begin with any theological idea. It is not gleaned from Biblical texts such as this one: “and that repentance for forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47). In fact the Emergent mission does not even start from a set of theological beliefs. I say this because their use of “missional” describes the idea that any works that make the world a better place to bring us toward the ideal future.

As we saw in the previous chapter, the Hegelian synthesis is ever lurking in the background of Emergent thinking; and this is the case with the idea of “missional.” For example, Brian McLaren writes concerning his idea of “missional:” “The term, as I understand it, attempts to find a generous third way beyond the conservative and liberal versions of Christianity so dominant in the Western world.”1 McLaren’s idea is that one does not begin with a set of theological beliefs that determine one’s mission, but rather begins with a mission and some sort of theology emerges in the process: “Theology is the church on a mission reflecting on its message, its identity, its meaning.”2 So in his thinking we can know our mission before we know theological truth.

Gaining Theology by Observing Pagans

Brian McLaren credits Vincent Donavan, a Roman Catholic missionary, as a key figure who inspired him to change his ideas about the meaning of salvation and the Christian mission. 9 He cites Donovan to support his claim that one’s mission is not to be found in a prior theological understanding:

I was to learn that any theology or theory that makes no reference to previous missionary experience, which does not take that experience into account, is a dead and useless thing . . . praxis must be prior to theology. . . In my work [theology would have to proceed] from practice to theory. If a theology did emerge from my work, it would have to be a theology growing out of the life and experience of the pagan peoples of the savannahs of East Africa.10

This means that apparently having been given no clear instructions from Jesus Christ, the true Head of the Church, about what He wants us to do and teach, we gain a theology by observing the pagans. Furthermore, we have to allow practice to hold priority over belief.

Let us consider several ramifications of this “missional” thinking of the Emergent Church. First, rather than learning about God and His will from special revelation (the Bible) we must learn about Him from general revelation (observation of creation). The term “theology” means the study of God. General revelation shows us that there is a Creator (see Romans 1 and Psalm 19), but the knowledge gained through general revelation is not a saving knowledge—it is a condemning knowledge, according to Paul’s teaching in Romans 1. Saving knowledge comes through special revelation:

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. . . . How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, (Hebrews 1:1, 2 and 2:3)

With terms like missional used, I would be concerned with mixing in with anyone who would use such a term, as well as the type of people that are involved in any way shape of form in supporting Victory Outreach.

Here are some following images from Gather Global leading many into total apostasy, Gather Global promotes new agers, the pope, ecumenical and interfaith groups and organisations.

gather1 gather-gdop Gather-henry-nouwen gather-hope Gather-julian-of-norwich gather-meditation-st-francis Gather-nicky-gumbel gather-pope-francis gather-roc gather-thomas-merton gather-working-together

Victory Outreach Manchester is in full support of Gather Global that it does not matter to them about truth, they have constantly rejected the gospel that separates from all false hood, that we can not join hands with those who do not worship God in Spirit and in Truth John 4:24 speaks of when we have names like Thomas Merton, Henry Nouwen, Pope Francis, Nicky Gumbel, Hope Together, Global Day of Prayer and Redeeming Our Communities (ROC).

Logo

Statement of beliefs Headings of Each section are in bold text regarding the statement beliefs and teachings of V.O.

Under The Forgiveness of Sins

The Full Gospel is not proclaimed, there is mention of sin, repentance and forgiveness, hell is mentioned and regeneration. There is no teaching on why men are going to hell under the condition that without Christ men are already under the condemnation of Gods laws and the offence of the law is not taught, Rom 3:20 is omitted there is no teaching that Gods salvation being conditional upon sin, in that believing in Christ through the act of obedience to him the condition is here

  • “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”[Jn. 3:16]
  • “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name given under heaven by which we must be saved.”[Ac. 4:12]

.and also can be found in Romans 8 the law of moses gives knowledge to sin, this again is not fully explained in the statement beliefs of VO thus the gospel that VO teach is inclusive this is a post modern gospel.

This is one of the reasons why VO can be involved with CTE and to a greater extent associate with Catholic People as our “brothers in Christ” because there is no issue for them with VO statement of believes and can aligned to be like minded to yourselves because there is no conflict between the stated beliefs stated in the document and the Catholic Catechism.

Laying on of Hands and Divine Healing out of context and unscriptual.

The examples given in the Bible by VO were seen as the leaders in the Bible were doing this and it is not by everyone.

This role is for the elders of the church not for anyone else.

Moses ordained Joshua through semikhah – ie. by the laying on of hands: Num  27:15-23, Deut  34:9. The Bible adds that Joshua was thereby “filled with the spirit of wisdom”. Moses also ordained the 70 elders (Num  11:16-25). The elders later ordained their successors in this way. Their successors in turn ordained others. This chain of hands-on semikhah continued through the time of the Second Temple, to an undetermined time. The exact date that the original semikhah succession ended is not certain. Many medieval authorities believed that this occurred during the reign of Hillel II, around the year 360 CE.[1] However, it seems to have continued at least until 425, when Theodosius II executed Gamaliel VI and suppressed the Patriarchate and Sanhedrin.

Aaron and the High Priests who succeeded him transferred the sins of the Children of Israel to a sacrificial goat by the laying on of hands: Leviticus16:21.

1 Timothy 4:14 shows this in practice, Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery (Elders).

Were as 1 Timothy 5:22 says Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure. – this is talking about ordination It was usual to lay the hands on the heads of those who were ordained to a sacred office, or appointed to perform an important duty; notes, 1 Timothy 4:14; compare Acts 6:6; Acts 8:17. The idea here is, that Timothy should not be hasty in an act so important as that of introducing people to the ministry. neither be partaker of other men’s sins; of any of the members of the church; by doing the same, joining with them therein, or by consenting to them and taking pleasure in them, as done by others; by conniving at them, and not restraining them, nor reproving for them: or rather this refers to rash and hasty ordinations of ministers; and either regards the sins of those who lay hands suddenly on men, and with whom the apostle would not have Timothy join, that he might not be a partner in their sins; or else the sins of those that are ordained, and these, whether before or after their ordination; which such involve themselves in, who either rashly and ignorantly ordain such persons; and much more if they do it, knowing them to be such: and these sins may include both immorality and error;.

Heaven and Hell

Inconsistent to Biblical Teaching

Hell is hades (adēs) or tartarōsas are the names for hell is not associated with the lake of fire, the word for the Lake of Fire is Gehenna, Gehanna referring to hell can be found in the Quran, whereas the Jews loosely analogous to the concept of “Hell“. This is simply a bad translation on the KJV part as the KJV translators kept that one out,

grave, hell.

From a (as negative particle) and eido; properly, unseen, i.e. “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls — grave, hell.

God’s Sovereignty and Foreknowledge, Human Free Will, and the Problem of Evil

The Bible teaches that there is no free will. Examining Exodus, Ecclesiastes 7, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, Acts 13, Romans 8, Roman 9, 2 Timothy, 2 Thessalonians, Titus 3:4-5 The Arminian/Gnostic heresy is the teaching that man has some good in him, and this is what Jesus Christ loves in us and is trying to reach.  The spirit is seen as good, while the flesh and soul are evil.  Thus we simply need to see that Jesus Christ wants us to realize this potential in us, enabling us to make a decision to allow God to multiply that good.  Combine this false idea with the Calvinist teaching that men do not need to exercise faith to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, and you have what is being preached today all over the world.  You end up with a “gospel” that sounds like this:

“Jesus Christ loves you even as you are.  He sees great potential in you.  You just need to accept the free gift of faith from God and you will have His forgiveness for any mistakes of the past, present and future.  Raise your hand if you want Jesus Christ in your life right now.”

Notice that this “gospel” is not the biblical Gospel.  It mentions nothing about man’s sin nature or his eternal destiny in hell unless he repents and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation by grace alone through faith alone.  They claim that the “gift of faith” is from God, so therefore men need not even believe.  They just have to raise their hand, say a simple prayer, and Wala!, they’re in.  They can now be counted as “saved” and be among statistics used to raise money for unscrupulous hucksters with a lack of integrity.  But little or nothing has been taught about man’s condition before God, about why Jesus Christ had to come and atone for our sins, what we must believe about Him, why we must share in His death and resurrection, or what God expects of us. (Sandy Simpson) DITC

This is what I believe; God will never circumvent our free will to save us. Interestingly the Bible also teaches us that we must also build ourselves up in the Faith.

Jude 1:20   But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

This is because faith is an act of the will, a very human decision made using our God-created will whereby we can decide to submit to the will of God and place all our hope of salvation in the grace of Jesus Christ alone. As God builds our faith, our faith grows.  If we shrink back, our faith may be destroyed.
Heb. 10:38-39 – 11:1   But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

The matter is that if there is no Law, there is no penalty and no repentance is needed. The Gospel of Free will that there is some good in us is false and humanistic.

Government and Political Parties

We believe that civil government is ordained by God and is better than anarchy. Yet at the same time we endorse the efforts of political leaders of the past, such as Martin Luther King (Adulterer according to the FBI) and Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu), who had the courage to stand up against civil injustice by peacefully protesting.

What VO is doing endorsing these men is unrighteous and contrary to Romans 3 and a very humanistic approach to their is an element of Good in all men.

Gandhi was the man who brought the Teaching into the evangelical camp that “God loves the sinner hates the sin”, this Love the sinner hate the sin is not Christian, this is a Hindu Ideology because in Hinduism the same is taught that their is Good in all men, this is called Karma, thus love the sinner hate the sin, Ying and Yang, Good and Evil

Counselling and Psychology

The Roots of modern psychology are contrary to scripture, the Advice “Victory Outreach acknowledges that people often need healing on all levels including spiritual, physical, mental, and emotional. We believe that God not only uses ministers as agents of healing, but also doctors, physicians, counselors, and therapists. We affirm that all truth is God’s truth, and sometimes God uses medicine, therapy, and other means to bring about healing.”

These are contrary to scripture, this is mixing in secular psychology in Christian Language (Syncretism), having working in the area of the PHD, Doctorate course in Psychology as even teaching and training in this area currently, I have firsthand experience and in the area of clinical psychology and I can say that psychology is not suitable for any Bible believing Christian no matter how much VO may use it and wrap it in Christian Language, Roots of psychology are found in Occultism, Eastern Religion such as Buddhism and Eastern Spirituality such as yoga etc, all pins to undermine scripture, at the heart it is self seeking.

Christian counselling is no different as it about manipulating our cognitive behavioural functions in living life differently, because the belief is God has failed and man is better at it.

Leadership in the Home

What does Victory Outreach believe about leadership in relation to the roles of husband and wife in the home?

“While the wife is instructed to submit to the husband (Eph. 5:23), both partners seem to share a mutual submission (Eph. 5:22). While the husband is to love his wife (Eph. 5:25), the wife is also to love her husband (Tit. 2:4). We suggest the ideal relationship in the home is that husbands and wives work together in mutual love, submission, and respect. There is no justification for a Christian husband to “rule” over his wife on the ground of biblical submission, but there is also no ground for a Christian wife to disrespect her husband. Decisions in the home should be done together through prayer and biblical guidance, having the family’s best interest in mind rather than one spouse claiming authority over the other.”

This is contrary to Gen 3:16   Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. This is the curse a commandment that God has placed over woman, VO in this case are teaching feminism women are equil to men on the bases of 1 Cor. 10:23-33 take out of context this is our common salvation that their is neither male nor female, does not say men and women are equal in roles. If your interested I have a 20 page theses on this subject this point does not legitimise husbands abusing their wives as husbands we are to love our wives as Christ laid down his life for the Church.

Appropriate Roles for Women in Ministry

Contrary to scripture and out of context.

What position does Victory Outreach take concerning the role of women in the church?

The Bible affirms many different roles for women in ministry. Miriam, together with her brothers Moses and Aaron, lead Israel and was considered a prophet (Exod. 15:20; Mic. 6:4). Deborah was a leader and prophet during the time of the Judges. Together with Barak, she led Israel to a great victory over the enemy (Judges 4). She also wrote a song that is recorded in Judges 5. Huldah was another female prophet who led Judah to revitalize their commitment to God (2 Kings. 22). Esther was a queen whom God used to deliver Israel from destruction during their captivity under the Persian Empire (Esth. 1-10).

 

In the New Testament we read that Mary, the mother of Jesus, wrote a song of praise to God (Luke 1:46-55). The women who followed Jesus were the first witnesses and evangelists of the good news that Jesus had been raised from the dead (Matt. 28:1-10; Mark 16:1-11; Luke 24:1-12; John 20:10-18). Among the early Christians, Philip’s daughters prophesied (Acts 21:8-9), Pricilla taught the Christian faith (Acts 18:24-26), Lydia was a businesswoman and leader in the early Philippian congregation (Acts 16:13-15), Phoebe was a minister (diakonos – Rom. 16:1-2), and Chloe, Eudias, and Syntache each seemed to have prominent roles in their respective churches (1 Cor. 1:11; Phil. 4:2-3).

 

These and other biblical examples demonstrate that God uses women to perform various functions within His community, including teaching and prophesying. On the Day of Pentecost, Peter proclaimed that God was fulfilling a prophecy in which He would pour out his Spirit on both men and women, and that both sons and daughters would prophesy (Acts 2:14-21).

 

Paul believed that those who committed themselves to Christ became a new creation in which “there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28). In Christ, just as there is equality among ethnicities and social statuses, so also there is equality among the sexes. This conclusion leads us to believe that other Pauline passages suggesting that women “remain silent” in the church must be interpreted in light of their unique situations. The two passages referring to this are 1 Timothy 2:9-13 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36.

 

1 Timothy 2:9-13

Does this text teach that women are not to speak in church; hence, they are not allowed to teach at church? If this were the case, the passage would seem to contradict Acts 18:24-26 where Priscilla (with Aquila), Paul’s friend and companion, taught a man named Apollos the way of the Christian faith more thoroughly. It is also evident that females were able to teach males because Timothy learned the Scriptures from his mother and grandmother (2 Tim. 3:14-16 cf. 1:5); Timothy’s father was not a believer (cf. Acts 16:1).

 

What, then, was the occasion for Paul recommending that women keep silent in 1 Timothy 2:9-13? Timothy was the pastor of a church in Ephesus (1 Timothy 1:3), which was being threatened by teachers who promoted false doctrine and hoped to gain monetary wealth (cf. 1 Tim. 1:4-7, 19-20; 4:1-7; 6:2-10, 17; 2 Tim. 2:17). With this situation in mind, Paul’s exhortation for the women to stay silent seems directed at the rich widows in the congregation who went about from house to house creating problems (1 Tim. 5:3-16; esp. v. 15). The false teachers naturally targeted these wealthy women and influenced them in such a way that the women began to influence others in the congregation (cf. 2 Tim. 2:16-3:7; 1 Tim. 2:12-14; 4:7).

 

Hence, to prevent false teaching from spreading in the church, Paul gives his solution in 1 Timothy 2:9-13 – he does not want women teachers in Ephesus. Paul brings out how in Genesis, Eve was deceived and transgressed. In a similar way, these false teachers were deceiving the women in the congregation. Paul could support his point by using a universal message (i.e., the deception of Eve) and an absolute principle (i.e., the created order of humans) without making his application absolute or binding on all congregations and all eras. For example, Paul adopts the Adam and Eve story also in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, where the created order seems to be an absolute principle, but the application (i.e., women wearing head coverings) is associated with the nature and custom of that particular time and culture (1 Cor. 11:6, 13-14, 16).

 

What seems to be at stake, then, is not some universal ban on all women teachers or ministers for all ages to come. Rather, Paul’s temporary solution to the problem in Ephesus was to prevent the women in Ephesus – who had been deceived by false teachers – from spreading false doctrine. His long-range solution appears to be that the women should learn (cf. 1 Tim. 2:11) or be instructed with correct teachings.

1 Corinthians 14:34-36

In 1 Corinthians 14:34-36, Paul again suggests that women are supposed to keep silent in church. Some have argued that if he is banning all women from speaking in any church, this would contradict 1 Corinthians 11:5, where he permits women to prophesy. Paul cannot be making some universal statement about silencing women if he gives them the freedom to prophesy in congregational settings.

The context of this passage is related to orderly worship. Paul does not prohibit women from teaching or prophesying; the only thing he restricts is speaking in relation to questions they wish to “ask” (1 Cor. 14:35). This may reflect the notion of unlearned listeners interrupting the teacher’s message in order to ask questions (a common practice in the ancient world). Perhaps some of the women in Corinthian congregation were interrupting the teacher or otherwise speaking in a disorderly manner. Paul did not want worship services to devolve into chaos or go off on tangents related to irrelevant questions. He therefore suggests that the women ask their questions to their husbands at home. Many times women in the Greco-Roman world were uneducated, and so their husbands were often a helpful source of information. This passage does not claim that women can never teach or prophesy; the context has to do with maintaining orderly conduct.

We believe the biblical texts involving women’s silence in the church are unique. They engage specific first-century problems relative to the particular congregation Paul is addressing. His solution seems to be temporary and specifically related to the congregation’s situation. Paul’s ideal or universal perspective seems to be that males and females are equal in Christ (Gal. 3:28). Paul worked with women and permitted women in ministry (Rom. 16:1-3; 1 Cor. 1:11; Phil. 4:2-3), and under normal circumstances, the early Christians allowed women to speak and teach others in the church (Acts 2:17; 18:26; 21:9; 1 Cor. 11:5). We therefore conclude that women are allowed to speak, teach, and minister in multiple capacities within Christian congregations.

What Victory Outreach is doing is missrepresenting scripture, this makes V.O. teaching wrong.

There is one response I have given is to a woman called Monica Dennington on this very subject.

In her video “Women in the church the contradiction” she quotes from the new age Gnostic’s, Westcott and Hort, NIV version of the Bible [5] quoting 1 Tim 2:11 – 5 and 1 Cor 14:33 Monica says “if you’re a woman minister of the Gospel these are the 2 verses you wish you did not have to deal with”.

Monica is wrong, there are actually a number of references, such as (KJV) 1 Corinthians 1:18 – 9, Genesis 3:16, Gods order and headship Romans 9:20, Revelation 2:20 in 2 Timothy 2:1-3 the command was given to men not women, 1 Peter 3 is another Chapter in the Bible that gives clear instruction and a commandment concerning the role of women in marriage, the wife is always told to be giving in marriage and refuse not your husbands, to be above all obedient to them, as men are under subjection to Christ and 1 Cor. 11:2-3 “Keep the teachings just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God” (means a rule authority or source, there is no mention of church offices of pastor, or even elders here).

In the video (8:24 on youtube) Monica misquotes the account concerning Miriam in Exodus 15:20, Micah 6:4. In Micah it states that Miriam was in fact leading the women not the men. In Exodus 15:20 it says that “Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and and with dances.” There is no mention of men in being led by Miriam it was the women. Micah 6:4 does not say that Miriam had led the whole of Israel, Miriam was with her brothers Moses and Aaron.

Exodus 15:20 makes it very clear that the prophetess Miriam had only led the women of Israel who sang the song of Moses this was her only function as well as being the example to the women in the nation of Israel, God had used Moses as the law giver and had Authority over Israel, Aaron was appointed to pray and watch over the people of Israel.

It is very clear by Monica’s interpretation of this story, that not only is Monica Dennington Biblically ignorant but she is also misusing and twisting the scriptures. The scripture concerning Miriam does not teach, neither does it suggest that Miriam had any authority over any man much less the entire nation. Scripture does not even suggest that women can be in positions of authority over men on spiritual matters, this is purely deceitful and it would appear that Monica Dennington is adding her own words to scripture.

In the video (at 9:14) Monica makes mention of the name Huldah (2 Kings 22:14-20 and 2 Chronicles 34:22 – 28) which are quoted out of context. 2 Kings 22:13 says that they went to her, Huldah had just communicated what God had spoken to her she did not expound on the scriptures, which was the duty of the high priest. Huldah did not teach, Huldah simply did not have such authority over the King. The King did not seek Huldah to see what Huldah had to say about any scriptures, in the text it talks about the events that had occurred. The King had recognised that what Huldah said was from God, the king submitted himself to God’s commands, this did not show any indication that the King was in submission to Huldah, Huldah was simply a prophetess, she was there to give messages.

In the Video (10:48) Monica makes mention of Deborah in Judges 4:4 – 10 and Judges 5: 31. She reads Judges 4:4 – 10 and mentions that Deborah was the Leader of Israel. She then refers to Judges 5:31, stating that Deborah had authority over men. Thus she totally tears apart the references in the Bible mentioned earlier on (see: Judges 4:4 and 5:31 in Judges 4:4) this was a governmental issue, if you read the scripture it also says the wife of Lapidoth;” this reference was not designed to justify women in positions of authority over men to the point where in Judges women expounded the scriptures in order to instruct the men in spiritual matters.

The reason why God raised up this woman was because the men did not obey God and it was a judgement on Israel. God’s raising up of this woman in governmental authority was to show his displeasure of their idolatry. It was not simply that Deborah had authority over them it was given to her as judge over Israel.

Deborah received instruction directly from God, she did not get this from reading scrolls to a congregation and expounding them, was Deborah in a synagogue when she gave instruction? Nope she simply judged Israel.

Judges 5:31 does not say that prophetesses are interpreters of the written word, this was the issue Paul had in the New Testament.

Monica here is seeking to use this as a proof text for her own personal agenda; the passage teaches us the opposite to what Monica is saying. Just because Deborah is a prophetess does not mean to say that the rules have changed in respect to women in the position of pastor, elder or deacon. If you read in Judges 17 it says “In those days there was no King in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6; cf. also 18:1; 19:1; 21:25). This is not a statement of doctrine it is teaching us a lesson that we should not disobey a Holy God. Monica is using Deborah’s account as the ideal situation for women to have positions of authority in the churches. If this was the case then would this mean that Sampson in the Bible was a excellent example that men should become like him? In the book of Judges these are very real people that God had serious issues with, God at this point used Deborah simply because Deborah listened to God.

Let us not forget example and a warning concerning the account of Eve in the Book of Genesis chapter 3, Paul stated that this shows that women can be more easily deceived than men. The story of Deborah, in Judges, does not set the principle that women should be leaders over men and have spiritual authority over them. Nowhere in the passage did Debora ever seek to put herself in the position of being a leader. God appointed her to be judge simply because the men were effeminate; and because of this God would bring shame on the men. “[As for] my people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.” (Isaiah 3:12). The problem in today’s churches is that men have been feminised so much they have become weak; more so having their senses seared with a hot iron they no-longer feel ashamed or guilty of their lack of piety. In both the Old Testament and the New Testament, headship of women was not seen as common practice.

People often make mention of Anna (14:03) in the video giving reference to Luke 2:36 – 38. Where in Luke 2:36 – 38 does it say that Anna was a priest? Paul the Apostle has no quarrels and says women can even prophecy but with head coverings, it makes mention of this in 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. Whereas men are not to cover their heads, in 1 Corinthians 11:7, in Anna’s case this was a gift that God gave specifically to her this was not applicable in every circumstance, we cannot make a doctrine out of it in order to justify women in positions of being a pastor etc.

Matthew Henry writes “The account here given of this Anna, who she was. She was, (1.) A prophetess; the Spirit of prophecy now began to revive, which had ceased in Israel above three hundred years. Perhaps no more is meant than that she was one who had understanding in the scriptures above other women, and made it her business to instruct the younger women in the things of God.”

Nowhere does it say that Anna taught from the Torah and the Pentateuch to men, nor did she ever expound the scriptures or teach the followers of the way even though Anna declared to the unbelieving Jews who did not know about Yeshu’a, she did declare to the people about the need for a saviour, this again has nothing to with Anna having authority in the church, the Jewish Temple is not the church, the Jewish Temple was a solitary place for worship in the day of Anna

Monica Denington’s definition of Anna proclaiming the gospel is her having authority over believers?????

In the scriptures men and women are told that, in Christ, we are all priests, again this has nothing to do with the roles and positions of women in the office of the church. In the case of evangelism this again has nothing to do with exercising authority over the body of Christ, the position again was always given to men never to women.

In the video (15:19) Monica Dennington makes reference to Philip’s daughters (Acts 21:8-9). Again this does correspond with 1 Corinthians 11:7. You do not find Philip’s daughters teaching or expounding scriptures to men, nor is it recorded that they were in a corporate meeting they just entered into the home of Philip. In a meeting women again can prophecy but should have had their head covered, Monica makes mention that the account in the book of Acts was the Acts church, it was not the Acts church but the house of Philip.

At 15:40 Monica makes mention of Priscilla. In the KJ Bible it speaks of Paul’s fellow helpers. Again women can assist, but cannot teach or have authority over men, this prohibition still stands God has not removed this. Monica mentions Acts 18:24 – 26 from a paraphrase called the New Living Translation (NLT). Her lack of understanding about what had happened really shows, when we look at the passage they did not look down on Apollos. Priscilla was with her husband Aquila when they were with Apollos to encourage him in what Paul had told them, as Priscilla and Aquila (who were tent makers) had spent a long time with Paul, it does not say that she had been teaching the word of God to Apollos in the way of interpreting or exhorting the scriptures, nor was Priscilla exercising authority over Apollos. Pricilla was under the authority of her husband, they simply witnessed the gospel to Apollos–this is not teaching.

At 17:29 in the video Monica Dennington makes mention of Phoebe in Romans 16:1 – 2. Here Monica states “Phoebe is merely a servant of the Church she is given a title of deacon, diakonos in the Greek, Phoebe is a member of the church at Cenchrea, in the position mentioned in Romans she was there to assist the Apostle Paul as mentioned in the text in verse 2 “she hath need of you.” Phoebe was there to serve the church there are examples in the New Testament were you find the word servant being used instead of deacon, the first example is in John 12:26, when we look at John 12:26 it states “If any man serve me, let him follow me, and where I am there shall also my servant be.” You can find the word “servant” in Romans 16:1 we know through reading this it would not be proper to use the word deacon as this would not make any sense, would you interpret it this way “And where I am there shall also my deacon be.” It is more proper to just call Phoebe by her title “servant.” And not deaconess we know from I Corinthians 14 women cannot be referred to as someone who had authority in the Church to a position of teaching or exercising authority over men. Paul addresses the need for worship to be orderly and decent, simply because God always keeps His law this is God’s expression of His will every single time.

It would seem to me that Monica has a superiority complex as she is eager to either get into office of the Church or see other women in this position, this is about what God says, this is not about degrading women or making them inferior to men, this is about God’s rule and his order.

Monica Dennington refutes the Apostle Paul. When Paul spoke it was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The reason why Paul stated such is that it was to protect the Body of Christ against any other influences that did not come from the Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches us to test all things. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”

Modesty in Physical Appearance – Contradiction not encouraged in deed and action concerning VO involvement with Hope 08 and Jesus Manchester.

Observing the Sabbath – a deviation on scripture Sabbath is not about keeping Saturday or Sunday, it a shadow of the reality that is in Christ. Christ being our Sabbath rest, not the church you go to any other than this is legalism

Reverence and Respect

Respect for People
Of course, no matter how important they may be, people are to be respected, not worshipped. When we obey parents and authority, we show them respect, not just verbally but by acting in such a way that avoids insult and injury. In fact, we should be respectful to everyone, regardless of their station, age, or religious beliefs: “Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves” (Rom. 12:10). Men and women must respect one another if they want healthy, holy marriages. Youth should respect the wisdom and experience of the elderly, as the elderly should appreciate the enthusiasm, vitality, and abilities of youth. As Peter advises: “Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older….All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, ‘God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble’” (I Peter 5:5). Although believers can generally expect no reciprocation, we should extend our Christian respect to non-believers. Showing respect, even to those who deny the Lord, is the first step toward leading such sinners to the path of salvation.

Rom. 12:10 is out of context, it is the nature of our Brothers in Christ we are to respect, it does not say show respect to any unbeliever we are to take on the Character of Christ respect is not in the contrast of love this is purely a worldly term the scripture say this,

Acts 10:34 (“God is no respecter of persons”) KJV and so we should take on Gods likeness, 2 Chronicles 19:7: “Now therefore, let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take care and do it, for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, no partiality, nor taking of bribes.”

Job 34:19: “Yet He is not partial to princes, nor does He regard the rich more than the poor; for they are all the work of His hands.”

Romans 2:10-11: “[B]ut glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”

Galatians 5:6: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision or uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.”

1 Peter 1:17: “And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear.”

The way man is defined is by his own culture or belief but definition not to accept what they believe is by virtue not to accept them.

Respect for the House of the Lord

Respect for the House of the Lord The Old Testament reminded the Israelites to “Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the LORD” (Lev. 19:30, 26:2). At that time, the sanctuary was a tent, not a great temple. Clearly, the presence of the Lord transforms even a simple tent into a place deserving our reverence. Therefore, church sanctuaries and facilities must be respected and cared for, as they are the dwelling places of the Lord. Any deterioration, or wear and tear must be addressed as quickly and effectively as means allow. Visitors associate a church’s reverence for God with the appearance of the place where He meets with His people. The facility need not be luxurious, just well cared for, to show reverence.

Behavior in the sanctuary should always be respectful and reverent towards God. Playing, running, shouting, and idle socializing are inappropriate, not only during worship services and altar prayer time, but also when the sanctuary is empty. The way we dress should also reflect our respect for God while we are guests in His house. Of course, if a sinner, stranger, or any visitor comes in off the street, we should welcome them no matter how they are dressed.

Informality, variety, and spontaneity in worship have been God’s special gift to Pentecostals, who have no formal liturgy. Let us guard, however, against that informality sliding into unintended irreverence and disrespect for the things of God, His people, and His places of corporate worship. Humor and casualness must be tempered and watched they can be inappropriate if they interfere with community edification or our relationship with God and others. Music could also interfere if we fail to patiently bear (Eph. 4:1-3) and respect music that we may not care for. As long the service and the music are drawing others closer to the Lord, we should be unselfish and glad for them; however, never at the expense of reverence and respect. In all our differences, let us respect one another, celebrating our union as a congregation of God’s people, one body in Christ.

Out of context Contrary to Matthew 27:50-51 God have removed the vial, the sanctuary is not the building it is the human body that is Gods dwelling place referring to his children as his body. Worshiping God corporately is not about the music as VO says.

Regular Church Attendance

Why is regular weekly church attendance so important? Why can’t a believer stay at home and develop spiritually just through Bible reading and prayer?

This is not consistent with scripture:

VO: The necessity of setting aside one day a week to worship God is stressed and commanded throughout the Old and New Testaments (Ex. 20:8). Hebrews 10:25 issues the command in no uncertain terms: “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” The Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus (Mark 2:28) was faithful to the Sabbath law, regularly frequenting the House of God (Luke 4:16). If Jesus felt compelled to regularly attend a house of worship, we, His followers, should do no less.

Nowhere in the Bible does it teach Going to church is a necessity, Ex. 20:8 does not say God commanded through the OT and NT that you must go to church this is a false idea, Hebrews 10:25 again does not say do not forsake your commitment to VO, Hebrews 10:25 does say do not forsake the gathering of Believers this does not refer to the keeping of Sabbath Mark 2:28 is out of context if you place it in context you read in verse 27 And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: VO are saying Sabbath was made for man by God for us to keep Sunday this is contrary to verse 28 in Mark 2.

Luke 4:16 Jesus felt compelled to go to his father’s house because while he was in the world the Spirit of God was not in the world until the Son departed the vial of the temple had not been removed at that point, meaning God will still present in the holy of Holies, and the spirit had not departed because the Spirit was still present in the Son, John 7:39 accounts the spirit had not departed because he was not in heaven.

The Statement ”If Jesus felt compelled to regularly attend a house of worship, we His followers, should do no less. is simply untrue, if the body is the temple and Christ dwells in us, as Jesus did not say Gods house is manmade, and since the veil had been removed God does not dwell in buildings but in the lives of his people. Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet.

God did not create people to live isolated lives. Christians need relationships with other Christians. Although some hermits live solitary lives of meditation, Scripture nowhere teaches permanent solitude as a lifestyle. As a Pentecostal church, Victory Outreach believes in the presence of the Holy Spirit in public worship. When believers gather together, the Holy Spirit edifies all those assembled: “All these [Gifts] are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body” (1 Cor. 12:11,12).

The teaching that Victory Outreach believes in the presence of the Holy Spirit in public worship.

The presence of the Holy Spirit is in every believer not just in one place, this is also not an emotional reaction such as swaying our hands in the air and speaking in tongues they call the move of the spirit, this is simply something I do not accept, but is mere charismaticism that is based on experiential theology and a deviation from scriptures that has spirit but no bases for truth. As taught by VO

What Can We Do? Local church leaders must plan and conduct inspiring services through which God can manifest His presence to everyone in attendance. Each worshiper should experience the Holy Spirit’s call to a complete commitment to the kingdom of God.

I do not also accept speaking in tongues and the necessity for spiritual experience as is evident on the aspect that a person has been baptised in the spirit.

In this case this is not what James 5:16 refers to as stated

If your church falls short of offering inspiring services, rather than leaving the church and having no fellowship with believers, you should accept the spiritual challenge of interceding on behalf of the church. Get involved any way you can. See if you can make a difference in your church. Remember that God answers the persistent prayer of a righteous person (James 5:16). We are all part of the body of Christ. We all have a responsibility to edify the group in which He has placed us. By faithfully attending services and praying for the Holy Spirit’s presence, we can outreach and interact with others who may very well be looking for someone like us to encourage and support them in their journey toward the Kingdom of God..

There are no scriptural bases for this statement.

Tithing

There is no scriptural bases for this argument Vo teaches that 10 percent is obligatory under Financial Practices & Credit.

It is taught that The Necessity of Tithing Sadly, many believers acquire whatever they want, and even go into credit card debt if they feel like it, yet still cannot manage to tithe their obligatory 10% to the Lord. They justify their short-changing of God by saying they can’t afford it and they’ll contribute when they can. Or they ask where in the New Testament it says that Christians are required to tithe. The Old Testament acknowledgment that everything we have comes from God also applies in the New Testament. Jesus praised the Pharisees for their tithing even as He chastised them for not being just, merciful, and faithful (Matt. 23:23).

The road to good financial health is longer without tithing than it is with tithing. God graces those who make His money the first priority in their budgeting and spending.

The Bible does not teach on the necessity of tithing: in the New Testament, it says the opposite, the Bible says tithing should be voluntary, Matt 23: 23 is out of context if you read its context 23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Jesus did not praise them for tithing because of Jesus’ specific mention of the tithe in this passage, those who support the tithe believe that he gave his endorsement to the practice of tithing in general. Some scholars disagree, however, pointing out that Jesus was simply obeying Mosaic Law as an obedient Jew and telling Pharisees they ought to have tithed as they claimed they were living under that law.

The final mention of tithing in the New Testament is Hebrews 7:1-10. This refers back to the tithe Abram paid to Melchizedek.

Most New Testament discussion promotes giving and does not mention tithing. 2 Corinthians 9:7 talks about giving cheerfully; 2 Corinthians 8:3 encourages giving what you can afford; 1 Corinthians 16:2 discusses giving weekly (although this is a saved amount for Jerusalem); 1 Timothy 5:18 exhorts supporting the financial needs of Christian workers; Acts 11:29 promotes feeding the hungry wherever they may be; and James 1:27 states that pure religion is to help widows and orphans.

Hebrews 7:9-10 the modern practice of church tithing is not supported by the teachings of scripture. Church tithing began in the late nineteenth century when a Wesleyan Church in Cincinnati hosted multiple fund-raising events to erase its enormous debt. Fledgling on the brink of bankruptcy and devoid of options, a layman came up with the idea of, “storehouse tithing.” It was an instant success and soon the news spread like wildfire throughout Christendom and the practice of storehouse tithing caught on. At the time, it seemed the answer to the debts and financial woes of churches whose church members gave indiscriminately.

Other Problems with VO.

http://www.bigdeal.org.uk/Mobile/default.aspx?article_id=64282

2007 – A Year of Prayer and Preparation! 

The vision for Hope 2008 is to unite the whole church, for the whole nation, for a whole year… to do more, do it together and do it in word and deed. Wouldn’t it be amazing to see this happen across the nation? How could this work in Greater Manchester?

Well, key to the success of this audacious vision is prayer and that’s why we’ve set up this site to help saturate the whole of the 2007 year of preparation for an amazing year in 2008.
We’re looking for 52 churches (or church groupings) to adopt one week of the year each, to set up a 24-7 prayer room and pray around the clock. Could you organise this? If so, pick a week and email: 24-7prayer@bigdeal.org.uk

Week 21: Sun 20 May – Sun 27 May – Victory Outreach Manchester

24 – 7 prayer started by Elijah List member James Goll

http://www.global24-7.org/new_stories.asp?sid=64

James Goll is a Gnostic who claimed he had a vision “I saw stadiums filled with young people radically praising God, A piercing word came, “Out of the belly of the Promised Keepers movement, shall come forth a Youth Extravaganza that will rock the nations.”

The stadiums will be filled! The stadiums will be filled as out of the belly of the Promised Keepers movement shall come forth a Youth Extravaganza that will rock the nations!” The central focus will be the cross of Jesus lifted high for all to see. These gathering will occur across the nations as an unprecedented move of worship, prayer and fasting sweeps the nations.

Why Should Prayer and Worship Arise 24/7 Today?

 

  • 24/7 Worship and Prayer is Done in Heaven – Let it be Done on Earth
  • 24/7 Worship and Prayer Releases God’s Justice on the Earth
  • 24/7 Worship and Prayer Fuels the Great Commission
  • 24/7 Worship and Prayer Hinders the Plans of the Devil
  • 24/7 Worship and Prayer Releases Revival Breakthrough
  • 24/7 Worship and Prayer Prepares the Way for Christ’s Second Coming

Promise Keepers involve Roman Catholics

http://www.promisekeepers.org/home/about/faqs/faqs—controversial-issues/untitled#catholic

Certainly, there are Catholics who embrace our Statement of Faith in which case we regard them as brothers in Christ. Views concerning salvation within Catholic circles do indeed vary from church to church. Therefore, regardless of any man’s church affiliation, the issue of a person’s salvation is between God and the individual.

http://www.jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/ecumenism-promisekeepers.html

Jeremiah Project: Promise Keepers is committed to reaching across denominational barriers in an effort to unite men. And they have been successful in doing that. Promise Keepers supporters and sponsors include Evangelicals, Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Charismatics, Catholics, Mormons and others. These groups have been divided by major doctrinal differences for many years. But now these differences are being dropped for the sake of unity. The very fact that both the Roman Catholic and Mormon churches have officially declared that they find no conflict between PK teaching and their own doctrines ought to tell you that something is seriously wrong. This seems to be an ecumenicalism of proportions never experienced since the Reformation.

James Goll also started Prayerstorm, http://www.encountersnetwork.com/email_blasts/jan_2008_prayerstorm.htm

From the Desk of James W. Goll

It is with great excitement that we announce the launch of a new global prayer movement – PrayerStorm! This past June the Lord commissioned me to release a worldwide prayer watch for Revival in the Church, Prayer for Israel, A Great Youth Awakening and Crisis Intervention through Intercession. We invite you to read below to find out how you can Enlist_Now and add your prayers to the growing army around the world!

Become part of the PrayerStorm today!

Dr. James W. Goll

24/7 prayer IHOP

http://www.24-7prayer.ca/index.php?itemid=189

I can remember the first time I saw the “Harp & Bowl Model” of intercessory worship.  A team had come up from the International House of Prayer in Kansas City (IHOP) and was demonstrating this dynamic fusion of worship and prayer at Little Trinity Anglican Church in Toronto.  As the ancient beams of the church quivered with the decibel level, everything inside me started to resonate as I realized that I could sing my prayers!  I could sing the Scriptures!  Prayer, which had seemed inaccessible and arduous, could be enjoyable!  Imagine that!

http://www.24-7prayer.com/nowpraying/5092

 

Negative Reports about Victory Outreach should be considered.

Please note these following links are not an endorcement.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-491695-victory-outreach-a-cult-exploiting-the-inner-city.html

http://culteducation.com/group/1216-victory-outreach/21743-victory-outreach-founded-by-sonny-arguinzoni.html

“State officials in the early 1990s found many church rehabilitation homes to be unsafe and unsanitary. After only four of the 70 or so Victory Outreach facilities in California got a state license, the church withdrew all its license applications.”http://www.rickross.com/reference/victory_outreach/victory_outreach4.html
On March 22, 2010, Victory Outreach Pastor Max Garza will begin serving a five month prison sentence for Aiding the Preparation of a False Tax Return.”
There is negative testimony after negative testimony about VOI on the following web pages:
A testimony from former Pastor of Victory Outreach Peter Belaustegui:http://www.apologeticsindex.org/v01.html
Victory Outreach International in Ireland fares no better with similar horror stories . It has been said that Victory Outreach in Ireland are “shepherding churches”where every detail of members lives are subject to the leadership whose total authority cannot be questioned. Much has been written about illegal fund raising of VOI in Ireland.
Bible verses drilled into memorization, long periods of study and activity without rest, long repetitive prayer meetings, further teachings and so on. Leadership is unquestionable (using the same old verse used by all Bible based cults and false prophets out of context “Touch not the Lord’s Anointed and do His prophets no harm” 1Chronicles 16:22 / Psalms 105:15)http://www.oocities.org/athens/parthenon/6528/cult.htm
 

Disney Exposed ! part 6

Disney Exposed part 6 (PDF) By Scott A. Johnson

 

  • This is not a promotion of the Star of David, we give recognition, support to the Jewish people and for the nation of Israel. http://www.letusreason.org/Juda9.htm