After receiving an update from Moriel’s newsletter on the campaign and war against all pre-tribbers by e-mail, This has just been sent to all on Moriel’s mailshot, Jacob would tar everyone with the same brush as the cults and false teachers who distort the view of the Trinity, let hope the Lord puts a stop to his nonsense, that he is saying that pre-tribbers attack the faith, making this a gospel issue and an issue of salvation in his words putting anyone who is not a post-tribber outside the gospel and this was also stated by Joe Schimmel, this is not an issue of the Trinity, the gospel or salvation, Jacob and Joe has crossed the line and Jacob and Joe is causing schisms that I cannot be part of.
On this occasion, he places the responsibility of the “pre-trib” heresy on Dr. Tom Ice and Paul Wilkerson, but then on other sites it is made clear that post-trib doctrine is essential doctrine on par with the gospel, referenced by Joe Schimmel’s website makes mention of the DVD (not the trailer) in “Left Behind or Led Astray,”xv is that the Pretrib teaching provides a platform for a most serious error which undermines the very Gospel itself.
This statement is making post-trib views essential, to be included with the Gospel, for Jacob and Joe Schimmel and his post trib friends are attempting to place the Post-trib teaching on the same footing as other major doctrines of the Church, hence the quote above and comments made on their Facebook pages, websites, books and newsletters.
My question since Jacob is in agreement with Joe Schimmel saying that Pretrib teaching undermines the gospel, this places all pre-tribbers under this category, then Joe and Jacob are making this an issue of salvation basis of Romans 1:16 that the gospel is the power of God to salvation, Jacob and Joe are intently putting pre-tribbers outside the faith, What they need to answer is this, since when are pre-tribbers outside the faith and how exactly is placed alongside a pretext for every false teacher and cult that exist in the world today is beyond me?????
Jacob needs to get his house in order, as does Joe Schimmel and rid themselves of compromise with other ecumenists this includes David Noakes and Clifford Hill of Moggerhanger House Park, Paul Mcguire and the ecumenists in the DVD Left Behind led Astry that Jacob defends, along with others people that I have listed on the UK Apologetics Library Website.
Joe Schimmels involvement with other groups and organisations and those ministries who are going along with Sun Myung Moon’s follower and part of the unification church, Clyde Rivers this includes the pre-tribbers, amongst other false teachers who are promoting lordship salvation heresy (works gospel which is another gospel), etc, these are working in unity to oppose all those evil heretical pre-tribbers aligning them with the idea that pre-trib is the basis for religious cults this is not a true statement, we know of cult leaders who held to post trib views such as David Berg (Children of God sex cult), the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, World Wide Church of God (Armstrongism) etc
This only shows that Jacob Prasch, Joe Schimmel and others will stand in agreement to fight against anyone who is not a post tribber or hold to post trib beliefs, it is my belief that this is far more of a serious issue then the post/mid/pre-trib issue itself, I must point and stress in this that there are post-tribbers who are disgusted with Jacob and Joe’s approach on this.
I also need to point out that the same ecumenical compromises do occur in the pre-trib camp, this includes people like Arnold Fructambaum of Ariel Ministries who is part of and defends one of the World Council of Churches supported, Lausanne Movement and I must emphasise some other pre-trib proponents are also teaching that pre-trib teaching is essential for salvation, not all pre-tribbers hold to this.
It could be just as easy to point out that the basis for post-tribulation teaching is Roman Catholicism itself, even stated that post trib views are part of Roman Catholic theology, it can be said here that Jacob Prasch is in agreement on this with the Roman Catholic Church, Rome undermines the gospel in all its teachings.
Jacob Prasch and Joe Schimmel is the focus here; but I am not taking the same approach as what Jacob is doing by taring all post tribbers with the same brush, in saying post-tribbers are Catholics or agree with Catholicism, but what I am saying is that all Roman Catholics hold to post-trib beliefs and the Catholic Church teaches there is no rapture of the church during the time of great tribulation.
CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 2642 The Revelation of “what must soon take place,” the Apocalypse, is borne along by the songs of the heavenly liturgy 127 but also by the intercession of the “witnesses” (martyrs).128 The prophets and the saints, all those who were slain on earth for their witness to Jesus, the vast throng of those who, having come through the great tribulation, have gone before us into the Kingdom, all sing the praise and glory of him who sits on the throne, and of the Lamb.129 In communion with them, the Church on earth also sings these songs with faith in the midst of trial. By means of petition and intercession, faith hopes against all hope and gives thanks to the “Father of lights,” from whom “every perfect gift” comes down.130 Thus faith is pure praise.
CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth 575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, 577 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism. 57
CCC Number Vatican Core Belief 676 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. 579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world. 581
The RCC teaches that Contrary to the rapture doctrine, Christians will not be spared the great tribulation this is the exact same teaching, doctrine and theology that Jacob Prasch now holds to and is in agreement with the references given in the Roman Catholic Catechism, on the other hand Jacob then rightly so condemns other core fundamental Catholic teaching, in principle this would make Jacob contradictory towards Moriel Ministries that he founded, but we must excuse and make allowances for the name calling and every other remark towards Jacob’s peers and or his critics.
It is for the reason mentioned that I cannot support or endorse Moriel Ministries and Jacob’s recent outburst, behaviour and attitude this had have now led me to write Moriel and GFM off.
Frankly I am getting board of those eschatology mud pie slinging cowboys, but it won’t end here, we need to put our eschatological differences aside regardless of whether you are a pre, mid or post-tribber, as time is short and souls need to be saved, in my experience of 13 years of street preaching, I have not seen anyone who is from the camp of Moriel Ministries, specifically the leaders and teachers who has not been actively taking the gospel to the streets of Manchester and London in the UK.
Here is a short quote below from Jacob.
The Hermeneutical Downgrade of Core Doctrine
In order to justify the absence of an exegetical basis for the Pretribulational Rapture teaching, and partly arising from its elevation to cardinal status, there have been some recent attempts by senior figures with the Pretrib Movement to hermeneutically downgrade other doctrines such as the Trinity, by claiming that they are arrived at in the same manner as the Pretribulational Rapture teaching, thus attempting to place the Pretrib teaching on the same footing as other major doctrines of the Church.
The doctrine of the Trinity can be demonstrated exegetically by the contextual use of numerous passages in their respective contexts, using sound hermeneutical methodology. From our observations, it appears that the Pretribulational Rapture teaching can only be arrived at by collecting together scriptures that have been contextually eviscerated, by reading presuppositions that have no biblical foundation into the texts and by full blown denial of explicit statements by Jesus and the Apostles.
We do not believe these methods to be compatible with a sound biblical scholarship. We believe that not only is this comparison with the doctrine of the Trinity false, it is actually a direct attack on the faith once delivered to the saints, for it provides a convenient pretext to cult groups and false teachers (who deny fundamentals of the faith) to claim orthodoxy, because they often use the same kind of hermeneutical methodology as Pretrib proponents use to arrive at their teaching.
This downgrade is not only being propagated by senior figures within the Pre-trib Movement, such as Thomas Ice (Head of the Pre-trib Research Centre) and Dr Paul Wilkinson, (a senior figure in PWMI) but it is being promoted and endorsed by T.A. McMahon and Berean Call, both on his radio programme and at the Berean Call Conference in Dr Paul Wilkinson’s presentation.
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